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Michael M

ArboristSite Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
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Location
Western Pa.
Not trying to make a political thread ...........but. I got an email the other day from a friend and I know, I know, you can't believe everything you read, however a few points that really stood out was the talk of federal inspectors coming to your home to make sure all your appliances, furnace, hot water tank, windows etc. meet the new green standards. This isnt the first time I heard that. Also they claim that all forms of wood burning heat would be outlawed. Now I know that there are people that say they can't do that here!! All I say is don't be a fool and think it couldn't happen. Take a look at what is happening everyday in this country and the rapid pace that we are heading down the wrong road.

So my question is this. If they were to ban woodburning all together what would you do? Would you just roll over and say ok? My answer is simple. Sometimes you have to make a line in the sand and hold your ground. I would not ever let a federal inspector into my home. No way no how. How about you?
 
Not trying to make a political thread ...........but. I got an email the other day from a friend and I know, I know, you can't believe everything you read, however a few points that really stood out was the talk of federal inspectors coming to your home to make sure all your appliances, furnace, hot water tank, windows etc. meet the new green standards. This isnt the first time I heard that. Also they claim that all forms of wood burning heat would be outlawed. Now I know that there are people that say they can't do that here!! All I say is don't be a fool and think it couldn't happen. Take a look at what is happening everyday in this country and the rapid pace that we are heading down the wrong road.

So my question is this. If they were to ban woodburning all together what would you do? Would you just roll over and say ok? My answer is simple. Sometimes you have to make a line in the sand and hold your ground. I would not ever let a federal inspector into my home. No way no how. How about you?


Scary thought, but what the hell would they do if your appliances didnt meet the standards?Throw you out of your own home?Fine you a pile of money making it impossible for you to financially afford to upgrade your home?
When you think about it rationally, there is no bloody way they could enforce any such regulations.the manpower alone would be enormous,not to mention the fact that a lot of these inspectors would wind up in a ditch somewhere.

When you get down to the knitty gritty, the majority of home in America, or anywhere else for that matter, wouldnt stand up to any hard inspection.I dont know about you,but my home has gone through some serious renovations lately, new appliances throughout,new windows,insulation, etc,but there is no way I could change the insulation value in the walls themselves.it is what it is, and was acceptable when the home was built.the only way I could improve the R value of the walls would require facing the wall with sheets of foam, and then residing.Or tear down the house and start over again.
Either way, you would be expecting more from me than you are going to get.
I can tell you one thing, the minute they ban woodburning, i will go undercover.Burn only after dark or burn seasoned wood that is kiln dried to the point of making no smoke what so ever.I would even remove my heat pump,what are they going to do, make my family freeze because of some rules?
I wouldnt sweat about this nonsense, if it ever happens it wont be in our lifetime, and lets face the facts here.Our generation is a dying breed, kids nowdays arent interested in busting wood, all they want to do is hit a button and get some heat.After they are in charge and we are long since planted in the ground let em make all the rules they want.
Kids nowdays have no idea what hard work is all about, let them face the realities of government enforced green living.
Rant over.
 
it's not true, man. you're grandfathered in if you have an older home. the new rules apply to NEW construction.

however, where i see a potential problem is selling an older home. buyers are going to want to see many improvements in the "green" areas.
 
To be honest I have done that for as long as I can remember and it doesnt seem to be working

Me too. Just look at the health care bill that just passed. The majority of Americans didn't want it but they rammed it down our throats anyway. Most of the Americans that did want it are the bottom feeders of our society.

I don't think I'd let the feds into my house either. I know I filled out the census awhile back and all I gave them was the number of people in my household and a note explaining to them that the Constitution requires that the number of people in my household is all that is required. I haven't heard anything from them yet.

This country has changed radically in the past 1 1/2 years and I'm sure they have plans to run roughshod over us for a lot longer. I wouldn't put anything past this regime and the previous administrations are not guilt free either.
 
I think the whole thing sounds a bit fishy. As far as woodburning being outlawed, new york state considers it a green alternative, and so do most real environmentalists. Anyone who has done research knows that burning wood is about as friendly as one can get. I know that to get LEED certification, you need to be inspected, but that is a process that you the homeowner initiates.
 
I think the latest volcanic eruption has barfed more soot into the atmosphere than our wood stoves have over the past 100 years....

LM
 
I think the latest volcanic eruption has barfed more soot into the atmosphere than our wood stoves have over the past 100 years....

LM

:agree2: I'd have to do some super Google work, but I have read specs on volcanic vs "man made" pollution, and the volcanoes, wildfires, etc trump all by a great amount. Excuse me while I go set something on fire...:cheers:
 
:agree2: I'd have to do some super Google work, but I have read specs on volcanic vs "man made" pollution, and the volcanoes, wildfires, etc trump all by a great amount. Excuse me while I go set something on fire...:cheers:

+1

Also, the IRS considers woodburning with certain (EPA approved) stoves a renewable energy resource and you are eligible for up to $1,500 in non refundable tax credit on your federal return. I'm not so sure they would ban that. But, then again, I never thought they would do what they have done to this point.
 
Sounds like an urban legend to me. Don't believe everything that you read especially from a blast e-mail that came over the internet.
 
This is from Waxman-Markey, which has passed the House:

And how will this bill affect you? It has regulations on every single aspect of your daily life. There are light bulb restrictions (no more than 60 watts in your candelabra); in fact there's a whole section that deals with lamps. If you decide to build a new home, it must meet new and specific energy requirements. If you decide to sell your existing home, a federal inspector must inspect your home, determine it's energy rating, and if your home is found to be unacceptable then you must retrofit and make changes before you will be able to sell.

There's an entire section on planting trees including guidelines on "scientific based measurements outlining the species and minimum distance required between trees planted...in addition to the minimum required distance to be maintained between such trees and building foundations, air conditioning units, driveways and walkways...". Do we really need the federal government telling us where we can plant trees?

There's a section dealing with outdoor lighting in which you are given instructions about landscape lights, lights in your swimming pool, lights on artwork and other architectural lighting. The federal government is going to tell you what wattage that light can be and how many you can have. In some cases the lights must be capable of producing two different light levels (100 and 60 watt).

There are new government regulations for water dispensers, hot tubs and other appliances. They're going to regulate water usage, and regulate wood stoves. Any wood stove that does not meet regulation must be "destroyed and recycled."
 
This is from Waxman-Markey, which has passed the House:

And how will this bill affect you? It has regulations on every single aspect of your daily life. There are light bulb restrictions (no more than 60 watts in your candelabra); in fact there's a whole section that deals with lamps. If you decide to build a new home, it must meet new and specific energy requirements. If you decide to sell your existing home, a federal inspector must inspect your home, determine it's energy rating, and if your home is found to be unacceptable then you must retrofit and make changes before you will be able to sell.

There's an entire section on planting trees including guidelines on "scientific based measurements outlining the species and minimum distance required between trees planted...in addition to the minimum required distance to be maintained between such trees and building foundations, air conditioning units, driveways and walkways...". Do we really need the federal government telling us where we can plant trees?

There's a section dealing with outdoor lighting in which you are given instructions about landscape lights, lights in your swimming pool, lights on artwork and other architectural lighting. The federal government is going to tell you what wattage that light can be and how many you can have. In some cases the lights must be capable of producing two different light levels (100 and 60 watt).

There are new government regulations for water dispensers, hot tubs and other appliances. They're going to regulate water usage, and regulate wood stoves. Any wood stove that does not meet regulation must be "destroyed and recycled."

I'm sorry, but I just finished looking through the actual bill and I don't seem to find these statements. In terms of lighting, they talk about newly manufactured fixtures meeting certain regulations, but nothing about retrofitting. As far as wood stoves, it specifically says that new stoves must meet requirements and replaced stoves must be destroyed rather than put back into use. All of the federal 'inspections' all reference HUD housing and government backed mortgages. I can go on and on...I see where your quote came from and I noticed that they don't give any section numbers to reference the facts. Don't think that these websites aren't trying to skew your opinion of these things. Regardless of the news agency, you need to take it with a grain of salt...
 
burning wood is the greenest energy out there, these idiots dont know whats good for them

.. good luck coming in this house, no search warrant? #### off.. ive had too much trouble with crooked cops in the past, small towns and bored cops = corruption and abuse. no one enters this house, period.

you wana look at my windows? huh? SLAM
for their sake they better not come snooping around..i had cops here last month snooping around claiming the neighbor called about "lights coming from the woods"... that has nothing to do with coming on my property. i dont own any guns, none, but i sure as hell can choke a ##### with the best of em!

#### them, this is america.
 
I'm sorry, but I just finished looking through the actual bill and I don't seem to find these statements. In terms of lighting, they talk about newly manufactured fixtures meeting certain regulations, but nothing about retrofitting. As far as wood stoves, it specifically says that new stoves must meet requirements and replaced stoves must be destroyed rather than put back into use. All of the federal 'inspections' all reference HUD housing and government backed mortgages. I can go on and on...I see where your quote came from and I noticed that they don't give any section numbers to reference the facts. Don't think that these websites aren't trying to skew your opinion of these things. Regardless of the news agency, you need to take it with a grain of salt...

Oh, you just finished reading 942 pages? Pleeeeeze,give me a break! And this is before the Senate gets its' hands on it.If you need a website to form your opinion about this horde of thieves and idiots than we are in worse trouble than even I feared.You cannot over-estimate the lengths that these people will go to steal our Liberty in the name of this green scam.
 
??? No, I didn't read the bill word for word, but I def read through it enough to know what I'm talking about. I can assure you that I am quite certain in my beliefs about the direction of this country and it is not impacted by some website. I receive my news from several sources as well as look at the bills themselves. When some news reporter tell me something, I don't take it at face value, nor should anyone else. I would be more than happy to be proven wrong...just give me the sections of the bill to reference.
 
SEC. 218. CERTIFIED STOVES PROGRAM.

(a) Definitions- In this section:

(1) AGENCY- The term `Agency' means the Environmental Protection Agency.

(2) WOOD STOVE OR PELLET STOVE- The term `wood stove or pellet stove' means a wood stove, pellet stove, or fireplace insert that uses wood or pellets for fuel.

(3) CERTIFIED STOVE- The term `certified stove' means a wood stove or pellet stove that meets the standards of performance for new residential wood heaters under subpart AAA of part 60 of subchapter C of chapter I of title 40, Code of Federal Regulations (or successor regulations), as certified by the Administrator. Pellet stoves and fireplace inserts using pellets for fuel that are exempt from testing by the Administrator but meet the same standards of performance as wood stoves are considered certified for the purposes of this section.

(4) ELIGIBLE ENTITY- The term `eligible entity' means--

(A) a State, a local government, or a federally recognized Indian tribe;

(B) Alaskan Native villages or regional or village corporations (as defined in, or established under, the Alaskan Native Claims Settlement Act (43 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.)); and

(C) a nonprofit organization or institution that--

(i) represents or provides pollution reduction or educational services relating to wood smoke minimization to persons, organizations, or communities; or

(ii) has, as its principal purpose, the promotion of air quality or energy efficiency.

(b) Establishment- The Administrator shall establish and carry out a program to assist in the replacement of wood stoves or pellet stoves that do not meet the standards of performance referred to in subsection (a)(4) by--

(1) requiring that each wood stove or pellet stove sold in the United States on and after the date of enactment of this Act meet the standards of performance referred to in subsection (a)(4);

(2) requiring that no wood stove or pellet stove replaced under this program is sold or returned to active service, but that it is instead destroyed and recycled to the maximum extent feasible;

(3) providing funds to an eligible entity to replace a wood stove or pellet stove that does not meet the standards of performance in subsection (a)(4) with a certified stove, including funds to pay for--

(A) installation of a replacement certified stove; and

(B) necessary replacement of or repairs to ventilation, flues, chimneys, or other relevant items necessary for safe installation of a replacement certified stove;

(4) in addition to any funds that may be appropriated for the program under this subsection, using existing Federal, State, and local programs and incentives, to the greatest extent practicable;

(5) prioritizing the replacement of wood stoves or pellet stoves manufactured before July 1, 1990; and

(6) carrying out such other activities as the Administrator determines appropriate to facilitate the replacement of wood stoves or pellet stoves that do not meet the standards of performance referred to in subsection (a)(3).

(c) Regulations- The Administrator may promulgate such regulations as are necessary to carry out the program established under subsection (b).

(d) Funding-

(1) AUTHORIZATION OF APPROPRIATIONS- There are authorized to be appropriated to carry out the program under this section $20,000,000 for the period of fiscal years 2010 through 2014.

(2) DESIGNATED USE- Of amounts appropriated pursuant to this subsection--

(A) 25 percent shall be designated for use to carry out the program under this section on lands held in trust for the benefit of a federally recognized Indian tribe;

(B) 3 percent shall be designated for use to carry out the program under this section in Alaskan Native villages or regional or village corporations (as defined in, or established under, the Alaskan Native Claims Settlement Act (43 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.)); and

(C) 72 percent shall be designated for use to carry out the program under this section nationwide.

(3) REGULATORY PROGRAMS-

(A) IN GENERAL- No grant or loan provided under this section shall be used to fund the costs of emissions reductions that are mandated under Federal, State, or local law.

(B) MANDATED- For purposes of subparagraph (A), voluntary or elective emission reduction measures shall not be considered `mandated', regardless of whether the reductions are included in the implementation plan of a State.

(e) EPA Authority to Accept Wood Stove or Pellet Stove Replacement Supplemental Environmental Projects-

(1) IN GENERAL- The Administrator may accept (notwithstanding sections 3302 and 1301 of title 31, United States Code) wood stove or pellet stove replacement Supplemental Environmental Projects if such projects, as part of a settlement of any alleged violation of environmental law--

(A) protect human health or the environment;

(B) are related to the underlying alleged violation;

(C) do not constitute activities that the defendant would otherwise be legally required to perform; and

(D) do not provide funds for the staff of the Agency or for contractors to carry out the Agency's internal operations.

(2) CERTIFICATION- In any settlement agreement regarding an alleged violation of environmental law in which a defendant agrees to perform a wood stove or pellet stove replacement Supplemental Environmental Project, the Administrator shall require the defendant to include in the settlement documents a certification under penalty of law that the defendant would have agreed to perform a comparably valued, alternative project other than a wood stove or pellet stove replacement Supplemental Environmental Project if the Administrator were precluded by law from accepting a wood stove or pellet stove replacement Supplemental Environmental Project. A failure by the Administrator to include this language in such a settlement agreement shall not create a cause of action against the United States under the Clean Air Act or any other law or create a basis for overturning a settlement agreement entered into by the United States.
 

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