Considerations as I head to the dealer and online

[CentaurG2]

I may consider the rental for one of the options, but I am leery of rentals without a good baseline. I'd hate to start hating Stihl because the rental Stihl has been abused. It's not the saw's fault. If I have a nice owned saw, at least I know what a good saw should do, and I can address the issues correctly (don't rent again with that vendor, possibly).

As for commercial work, it is tempting, but I really need to "man up" and become self sufficient. As the next poster noted, there is no "end" to cleanup with a shelter belt like this.

However, I am hedging my bets. If I get a saw, work on it for a month or two and am not making appreciable progress, I'm adult enough to call in the pros and get it done. At least I will have gotten lots of practice, I'll have some common ground with the crew and can talk knowledgeably, and I still need a saw long term, anyway, so the purchase is not wasted.

Jim

If you are not going to be cutting wood off of your “woodlot” for heat, then I would just let nature take its course here. You seem to suggest that you are down on funds, manpower and time. You will find a lot more “important” things that need doin’ around a homestead than trying to maintain a woodlot for nothing other than esthetic purposes. In addition, such areas actually are home to a lot of different critters that could utilize the area. Once you get your feet on the ground, get a good CUT, a 3pt mounted winch and chipper and you can reinvestigate DIY cleaning and maintenance.

I agree that all landowners should have a decent chainsaw but without the knowledge to maintain both saw and especially chains, you might be better off renting a saw on odd time you need one. If you gots the time, puddle over to the stihlusa web sight. Under information, videos, you will find chainsaw maintenance, safety, operation and maintenance video. It should take you about 30min of your life to watch and unlike stihl chainsaws, it is well worth your time. Good luck.

 

[brain]

Soooo....where are you young Bro????

Still here. Have not finished visiting around town, but am hopeful I'll have something to post by the weekend.

Jim

 

[brain]

If you are not going to be cutting wood off of your “woodlot” for heat, then I would just let nature take its course here. You seem to suggest that you are down on funds, manpower and time.

Hmm, did I imply that? No, funds are not an issue, nor is time. Manpower might be considered a bit light, since it's just myself and my son, but we're a resourceful lot.

You will find a lot more “important” things that need doin’ around a homestead than trying to maintain a woodlot for nothing other than esthetic purposes.

I can appreciate the point, but I do feel there are certain things that need to be addressed immediately. 2 large trees are standing dead and look to keel over at any time. While they would not affect any structure, I'd rather they come down in a controlled fashion and not on someone. As well, some are just crippled by the damaged limbs they are supporting and need to be pruned. I might take some pics to illustrate the degree of concerns at some point.

Beyond the immediate issues, I agree work will likely be fit into the overall schedule.

I agree that all landowners should have a decent chainsaw but without the knowledge to maintain both saw and especially chains,

I will admit knowledge is lacking here, since I don't think you can profess to know how to maintain a saw unless you own one or use one on a daily basis, but I can't see gaining that knowledge with a rental (I don't learn stuff till I need to). To be more succinct, I appreciate your perspective, but I am purchasing at least 1 saw. I might rent a second one for this initial work effort, but there will be a saw on the premises by this time next weekend, if I can help it.

If you gots the time, puddle over to the stihlusa web sight. Under information, videos, you will find chainsaw maintenance, safety, operation and maintenance video. It should take you about 30min of your life to watch and unlike stihl chainsaws, it is well worth your time. Good luck.

Are you stating that maintenance of a Stihl is somehow overly complex compared to a Husky or a Dolmar or some other brand? If so, I am greatly interested in an objective view there. I do want maintenance to be relatively easy, all other things equal.

Jim

 

[blsnelling]

Are you stating that maintenance of a Stihl is somehow overly complex compared to a Husky or a Dolmar or some other brand? If so, I am greatly interested in an objective view there. I do want maintenance to be relatively easy, all other things equal.

Jim

Not the case at all. Just a good source of info. Like I said before, simply pick your brand of choice. All the saws I mention are all great professional grade saws.

 

[MuleyJ]

Are you stating that maintenance of a Stihl is somehow overly complex compared to a Husky or a Dolmar or some other brand? If so, I am greatly interested in an objective view there. I do want maintenance to be relatively easy, all other things equal.

Jim

Objectivity is sometimes a difficult thing to find around here, though this thread has been very good so far! The only thing that will be overly complex about this situation will be your own over-analyzation. That's not a bad thing because most of us began here the same way. There really are no major differences in any of the brands mentioned, just subtle ones. No offence to any of the "off-brand" promoters, but I think it might be good to stay with one of the big two here purely from a support and service perspective, especially if you only want one saw. If your Dolmar dealer is solid and well established that may be a viable option as well. They do make a couple very solid, light and inexpensive (comparatively speaking) 70cc saws. From what has been posted here the 50cc saws are great too. All the saws you are considering and have been mentioned are good ones. Pick one that fits and feels comfy and take the plunge. You will figure out what more you need/want as you go. If you think that there is any possibility you might own two saws at any point, buy a 50cc or 70cc saw up front and avoid the 60cc tweener.

 

[eat a peach]

I also welcome you to AS

first welcome to AS

Jim Power sharp is junk. It is a promise of a quick fix for people with more money than brains and it does not work it does not set the raker's to the right hight it does not sharpen the side of the cutter and it takes the material of the wrong side of the top of the cutter

File-o-Plate is one of the best ways to sharpen a chain with a file and they are cheap just a couple of dollars

If you are not confident then buy a cheaper chain grinder like $50 and take small cuts cheap grinders flex a bit but you can get good results if you keep the chain tight (I was brought up a poor tradesperson blames his tools)

Or you could buy several chains and get the saw shop to sharpen them.

Nothing cuts better than a new chain

Nothing wastes all that horse power like a blunt chain.

Nothing controversial so far.

I have used saws on and of since being a teenager old farm boss cant remember the model as I did not care at the time, 08s, Ms211, Ms220t, 50cc makita etc.
However My first saw I owned was a MS017 It was used once by its first owner and I got it for $80.00. With it I fell and bucked trees 24" many a time.

Sure it was not as fast as a MS660 but it was not a timbersport comp. Just me working at my pace once it was "on the ground the volunteer groundies were kept busy. I was waiting on them not the other way round. So you don't have to have a big saw but a little saw won't last unless it gets lots a luv.

Good technique helps but nothing cuts like a sharp chain
You can cut something up to twice your bar length.

that said

I have bought a new saw MS261 "Brad - C.S.I. (ChainSaw Investigator)" shipped it half way round the world to me.
Thanks Brad.

I respect all of the heartfelt good advise you have been given by everyone so far.

Buy a 50cc saw and see how you go

start on the small stuff, then do some bigger stuff and make up your own mind what suits your budget.

do buy your self some quality PPE chaps gloves helmet visor etc

After PPE the best investment is learning how to sharpen a chain

Some very good info in these posts especially about P P E . If you do as some here say and I agree with them,and buy a nice 70 cc saw the worst thing you could do would be forget safety. It doesn't take much to swing a running saw overhead make a cut and while watching the limb drop lower the saw into your leg. You also should remember this is an excellent time to teach safety to the kids. A good set of chaps are well worth the money. I envy you having this opportunity to teach and spend time outdoors with your kids. Mine are grown and I long for the simpler fun times we shared in the woods. good luck.

 

[rms61moparman]

Dolmar/ Makita 401 and 6400/6401.
JMHO


Mike

 

[lly_duramax]

Everyone seems to be ruling out the all around 60cc class saw. My dad and I kept ourselves warm and maintained the farm for 11 years with the old 034av. The 046 came along and while it was faster we weren't any warmer. My MS360 was the only saw I owned for 7 years until I got my 441 last year and if I could only keep 1 saw the 360 would stay. Despite what some people say on here a 60cc saw will cut 24'' wood all day long and is not significantly slower than a 70cc saw. I am a Stihl guy, so I would recomend taking a look at the MS362. The Husky 357xp, 359, or the Dolmar/Makita 6400 saws would be worth looking at too. Good luck!

 

[slowp]

I will chime in--again. Buy 1 good running, dependable, saw. Save your money and instead of buying another saw, buy a spare bar and chains.

When you get pinched/stuck/ whatever, you can undo your powerhead from the bar and use the spare to cut your stuck bar out.

And you will get your bar stuck. Everybody does.

 

[MuleyJ]

Everyone seems to be ruling out the all around 60cc class saw.

I did not mean rule them out, just that it would be better to purchase a 50cc or 70cc saw if the plan is to eventually own two. If you are going to own one saw, I think that a 60cc saw is the the way to go. In fact in the description of the 562xp on the Husky website they recommend 16"-28" bars. IDK if I would ever run a 28" bar on a 60cc saw, but I think all the 60cc pro saws will run a 24" bar respectably when required.

 

[brain]

Some updates:

I was hoping to get to the Husqvarna dealer tonight, but could not make it there before they closed. Will try again tomorrow.

Dolmar dealer in town has very few options, no 7105 nor a 7900. So, I think I will concentrate on Stihl/Husqvarna.

I checked out the Stihl new lineup. I thought it odd the 441 weighs more than the 460, even though it's a smaller cc unit (70 versus 76). Both are nice units, but 14.6# is a handful. To be honest, I was most impressed with the weight and balance of the 362. It was marginally heavier than the 261, but 10ccs more and balanced nicely with a 20" bar while it could accommodate a 25" bar.

I like the footprint of the saws, but was not enamored with the air cleaner setup on the 261/362. The 441 and 460 use a knob on the back of the shroud for closure, which seems ideal. The 362 uses snaps on the corners, which appear to require a tool (or screwdriver) to unlatch. The 261 requires two screws to be unscrewed to remove the cover. I am concerned about needing the tool around for air filter maintenance while on the site. Maybe it's a non issue, but I noticed older 026 units share the same setup as the 441 and 460. I wonder why they changed it.

Compression release on the new units was nice, and they are easy to pull. Choke settings were easy to understand. Dealer was nice, and knowledgeable. MS362 with extra chain, case, oil, and chain oil was ~ $800 out the door.

I'm trying to keep the 50/70 idea front and center, as the 60cc path really messes up a 2 saw combo idea (There's no 40cc option except the 338XP Husky, which I suspect everyone here will shun because it's a top-handle.) But, I will admit I didn't feel the extra weight of the 362 over the 261.

I do wish air filter access was easier.

Jim

 

[MuleyJ]

Some updates:

I like the footprint of the saws, but was not enamored with the air cleaner setup on the 261/362. The 441 and 460 use a knob on the back of the shroud for closure, which seems ideal. The 362 uses snaps on the corners, which appear to require a tool (or screwdriver) to unlatch. The 261 requires two screws to be unscrewed to remove the cover. I am concerned about needing the tool around for air filter maintenance while on the site. Maybe it's a non issue, but I noticed older 026 units share the same setup as the 441 and 460. I wonder why they changed it.

The newer style air filtration is far superior and will not need attended to anywhere near as often. The new saws also have sprung AV mounts which are a marked improvement too. I thought the 441 was a snap type cover? All of the Husky saws have a similar system. Easy to remove with a scrench, which you will likely find you need to have close all the time anyway.

 

[HILLBILLYREDNEC]

See if you can get a newer MS 440 from the stihl dealer. The MS 440 with the PNW package and a 28" bar chain is hard to beat.

 

[Silhouette]

IMO the biggest advantage to a 50/70 cc saw plan isn't that you get to pick the saw most suited to a particular task, but that you have another saw to use when one of them needs some repair/retuning. It will happen even with a pro grade saw, if it doesn't then you're not using it enough. A 50 cc saw will cut large trees (slowly), and a 70 cc saw can be used for limbing. A single 60 cc saw will do the work, but probably doesn't fit that great into a 2 saw plan for your type of trees.

However, going out and buying two saws is overkill if you find after a month or two that you don't have the time to get the job done. Buy a 50 cc saw, start clearing out medium/small trees and see how you like the work, the saw and the dealer.

 

[David (saltas)]

I will chime in--again. Buy 1 good running, dependable, saw. Save your money and instead of buying another saw, buy a spare bar and chains.

When you get pinched/stuck/ whatever, you can undo your powerhead from the bar and use the spare to cut your stuck bar out.

And you will get your bar stuck. Everybody does.

Extra bar and chains is a good plan and they can be a different lengths so you cant drop trees and buck with the longer bar or limb with a shorter bar.
I have three bars for one saw two different lengths and two different gauges and four types of chain and two different gauges

IMO the biggest advantage to a 50/70 cc saw plan isn't that you get to pick the saw most suited to a particular task, but that you have another saw to use when one of them needs some repair/retuning. It will happen even with a pro grade saw, if it doesn't then you're not using it enough. A 50 cc saw will cut large trees (slowly), and a 70 cc saw can be used for limbing. A single 60 cc saw will do the work, but probably doesn't fit that great into a 2 saw plan for your type of trees.

However, going out and buying two saws is overkill if you find after a month or two that you don't have the time to get the job done. Buy a 50 cc saw, start clearing out medium/small trees and see how you like the work, the saw and the dealer.

Do a budget

50cc Saw
extra bar
couple chains .325
files /grinder
Chaps
helmet/visor/muffs
gloves
assume you got boots

2nd saw 70cc 3/8 chain
extra bar because this one has a different gauge chain
couple chains because this one has a different gauge chain
more files

You could spend quite a bit and quickly.

Or buy one saw with all you will need with a view to if you buy a second saw that it runs the same bars and chains and you can share the inventory between them.

 

[Silhouette]

Or buy one saw with all you will need with a view to if you buy a second saw that it runs the same bars and chains and you can share the inventory between them.

Personally I'd still want several bars of different length even if I bought two equal saws. I wouldn't necessarily buy more bars for a 50/70 setup, but YMMV depending on your type of trees.

 

[masculator]

Spent the day and the evening reading the threads here, lots of great and relevant information.

Sadly, I can't find someone in my specific category, so I thought I would ask for things to consider as I travel to the dealers and online over the next few days.

Just purchased ~ 9acres of lovely SD land, complete with mature shelter belt.

And, by mature, I mean, it's been unkept for ~40 years. It's such a mess, it'll take months to clean it up. 12-24" trees fallen in the middle, some struggling to survive with wind damage, etc. Property was rental since 1979, which explains the state of the tree belt.

Enter new property owner. I'm not a total newb around a saw, but I do not yet own one. This job is not going to get done without one.

I'm not sure I ever seriously considered them, but I did troll the box stores for a saw. All of them look so flimsy, names I've never heard, etc.

I would not classify my tool usage as abusive, but I am hard on stuff. I tend to buy pro line stuff, because they hold up better for me. Money is always a consideration, but secondary. My main concerns are:

• Size: Initially, I need something to handle this huge workload. But, afterwards, it'll just be typical homeowner use.
• Weight: I need to limb quite a bit initially, and would prefer a lighter unit. But, I don't want to go so light that I am skimping on quality.
• Forgiving nature. My other pro tools tend to forgive my missteps a bit. My main concern is my lack of ownership. I know I will forget something with this unit, given my lack of previous ownership. A unit that is a bit forgiving (within reason) would be a plus.
• Easy to start and run. The bulk of my saw experience has been years ago with my father's "saved from the junk heap" saws. They ran, and they did the job, but they were near impossible to start (he was/is a mechanic, so I don't think it was due to bad setup.) Regardless, I have no desire to pull all morning with various choke settings just to start the work.
• Repairable: I tend to run stuff that has lots of spare parts online. Since I'm hard on stuff, it breaks, and I accept that. Easier to repair units get higher marks from me.
• 1 versus 2: Maybe it's impossible to find an all around performer, and I should consider two saws for the different uses.
• Safety: Obviously, a chain saw is an aggressive tool, and caution is the order of the day, but additional safety features are f interest to me. Or, just normal features applied with safety in mind (balance, civil throttle, etc.)

I don't want this to be a "which 50cc saw should I buy?", because I already found that FAQ: 5100 (5105), 260 Pro (261), 346XP

Still tracking down a Husky dealer around here, but there's a full line Stihl and Dolmar one in town. The 346 tipping over when idling bothers me a bit, because I'll no doubt be sitting it down a bunch for the next few months, though I hear it's lighter than the 260/261.

Since this is my first saw, and because I often do with investment purchases, a little voice is telling me I should buy an older used model.

My main concern is right-sizing the unit. I'd prefer to invest in one good saw, but I need something light enough to use in the air yet strong enough to buck.

Any general thoughts (or a link to the correct thread, I searched the site via Google and used the internal search, and did not find a thread as yet would be appreciated.

My apologies if I've imposed. I'd rather ask here than at the dealer(s).

Jim

Buy a good used ms660 stihl or if you think thats too big go for a 460 or 441. any of these is capable of doing the job and will outcut and outlast any of the sub 70cc class, yet are still quite easy to use for anyone bigger than a pre-pubescent boy. however if the "shelter belt" is not a huge belt with hundreds of trees to cut down I would look at an ms362 or good second hand ms 360/036 or 361. these are light enough for most anything but heavy duty enough to last and cut some big wood. the smaller saws like the husky 346 and such will not cut as well with a 20 to 25 inch bar, and although they are good saws they are just not in the same class.

 

[masculator]

I did not mean rule them out, just that it would be better to purchase a 50cc or 70cc saw if the plan is to eventually own two. If you are going to own one saw, I think that a 60cc saw is the the way to go. In fact in the description of the 562xp on the Husky website they recommend 16"-28" bars. IDK if I would ever run a 28" bar on a 60cc saw, but I think all the 60cc pro saws will run a 24" bar respectably when required.

WRONG!!! A 60 cc and a 90+cc plan is far and away superior to a 50/70 plan and isn't much more expensive. besides a 60cc saw is much more of a work horse than a 50cc saw, hence the fact most pro saws start in this range. you are right about bar size though. 18 inch for 48 to 52cc, 25 inch for 60+cc but get a 20 inch for most of your work. 90cc 25 to 36 inch.

 

[MuleyJ]

Just purchased ~ 9acres of lovely SD land, complete with mature shelter belt.

And, by mature, I mean, it's been unkept for ~40 years. It's such a mess, it'll take months to clean it up. 12-24" trees fallen in the middle, some struggling to survive with wind damage, etc. Property was rental since 1979, which explains the state of the tree belt.

WRONG!!! A 60 cc and a 90+cc plan is far and away superior to a 50/70 plan and isn't much more expensive. besides a 60cc saw is much more of a work horse than a 50cc saw, hence the fact most pro saws start in this range. you are right about bar size though. 18 inch for 48 to 52cc, 25 inch for 60+cc but get a 20 inch for most of your work. 90cc 25 to 36 inch.

The way I understood the OP was that he had 9 acres of land, on which existed a mature sheltert belt containing mostly 12"-24" wood. Not 9 acres of shelter belt with 3-4' trees. I doubt very seriously that a 60cc/90cc saw combo would be the most efficient allocation of resources in this situation. A 50cc/70cc saw combo would be nice but likely not needed either, even if it was the whole 9 acres. While the combo you mentioned would be "far and away superior" in some situations, i doubt that this is one of those situations. He is not trying to clearcut the Black Hills.........yet.

 

[jus2fat]

I was most impressed with the weight and balance of the 362. It was marginally heavier than the 261, but 10ccs more and balanced nicely with a 20" bar while it could accommodate a 25" bar.

The 362 uses snaps on the corners, which appear to require a tool (or screwdriver) to unlatch. The 261 requires two screws to be unscrewed to remove the cover. I am concerned about needing the tool around for air filter maintenance while on the site.
Compression release on the new units was nice, and they are easy to pull. Choke settings were easy to understand. Dealer was nice, and knowledgeable. MS362 with extra chain, case, oil, and chain oil was ~ $800 out the door.
But, I will admit I didn't feel the extra weight of the 362 over the 261.

I do wish air filter access was easier.

Jim

Have the Stihl dealer demonstrate the the air cleaner removal.

I believe it's just a simple 1/4 turn with the scrench...and putting
it back on is just the opposite and another 1/4 turn to tighten.
If this is the case...it's super easy...and no tabs to break.

J2F