Crane tip-over.

[jomoco]

I suppose that might make a difference. really what else could it be, how do you shock load when picking a trunk? The stuff is heavy, real heavy at the bottom. It is soooo heavy down low and it adds up quick. I was never a great fan of making huge pics and don't really do and when it come to trunk pics I am really accounting for the extra weight.
But man, no counter-weights? its a shame to see guy out there that gotta try crap like that.

The climber had to be as clueless as the CO!

I saw another angle of the climber's last cut on the trunk, and it's the strangest funkiest cut I've seen, almost an inverted snap-cut, but it's on the opposite side of the crane's path down side of the trunk!

Between a CO with no counterweights, and a climber making funky finish cuts completely backwards, it's a miracle no-one got seriously hurt.

jomoco

 

[UnityArborist]

The tree looked like an amazing specimen of an Oak. I don't want to jump to conclusions, but taking out an amazing tree like that must have taken a lot of sweet talking by the salesman. Looking at the before shots you cannot even see any dead wood up in the canopy.

The $10,000 for the removal could have purchased years worth of preservation on that grand old tree. From pruning, to Cobra, to fert and spray for any affliction under the sun. The economic climate is tough, but trying to scare people into unnecessary tree removals is LOW. Really low, and I hope that we can all work hard to keep our business a float, and our moral standards high.

 

[rbtree]

The climber had to be as clueless as the CO!

I saw another angle of the climber's last cut on the trunk, and it's the strangest funkiest cut I've seen, almost an inverted snap-cut, but it's on the opposite side of the crane's path down side of the trunk!

Between a CO with no counterweights, and a climber making funky finish cuts completely backwards, it's a miracle no-one got seriously hurt.

jomoco

I'd not use a snap cut anyhow unless the load is vertical, especially when the crane was maxed (well, beyond actually). I'd either just make one cut and let the operator slowly lift it to as vertical as possible, or put a face cut in..... No sudden movements, which a snap cut can cause. Also, that motion would have slowly brought the load closer to the center pin.

 

[rbtree]

I was never a great fan of making huge pics and don't really do and when it come to trunk pics I am really accounting for the extra weight.
.

I've done a lot of vertical conifer picks for log salvage with my favorite CO, who only has a 23 ton truck mount. Often 30-37 feet long, or weighing up to 10,000 lb. Just gotta be close, and finesse everything.

These poplar butts weighed 6000-8000 lb, i'm sure! Mike's truck mount with the rear outriggers that only extend a bit was the only unit that would fit between the two houses.

We really needed two chokers, set opposite....but not only did Mike not have any long enough, he only had one choker of the appropriate 7/8th size. And, it was barely long enough t go around the two largest butt logs....

 

[rbtree]

On this monster pine, the working radius was 70 feet. The crane co brought an old 120 ton crane, sans counterweights, so charged us as if it was the 90 I'd asked for.... He was darned close to his limit with this pick. He had to roll it around on the stump, till he could boom up and in a bit. Johnny's saw (my 42" equipped 3120) was a bit stuck.

This one was higher, but longer. I forget for sure, but it looks as if the operator was having trouble with it as well.

jomoco, I've always liked to set chokers/slings on the same side, as it allows the kerf to open up nicely while cutting from directly below the choke point in, and it allows the log to be set down much more easily than when the chokers are opposed. However, i think it would have made the logs easier to lift off the cut, if opposed. you agree?

 

[rbtree]

These two lombardy poplar were even larger. The larger of the two was 22'2" around up about 3 feet! Again, we were able to get the crane, this time a 38 tonner, close

big butted mommas!

 

[treevet]

We do huge picks on the edge of capability of the equipment at times. When you do most of the big take downs in an area that has very large trees then it happens sometimes. But you have to have a lot of experience and that brings finesse and educated judgement. Sometimes it is slowly standing the piece up and "feeling" the pick. Sometimes it is putting the piece on the ground and "walking" it in while retracting boom and getting more upright. Etc. etc.

I still feel that the cut as mentioned by Jon may have shock loaded the boom by bouncing it when it finally snapped off. There was a lot of work done prior to this accident and plenty of time to get accustomed to the lack of counter weight on the crane. We often load up the ass end of my small crane with logs for counter weight. Like I said, when it is a marginal cut (and I am subbing) it is up to the crane op if he wants to go thru with it. If he wants to know the weight of the piece I am gonna put a number on it for him. A few times I have even attached another dump truck to the back end of my 14 tonner to stabilize it. I fabricated some front mounted jacks on the bumper attached to the frame as well. There are so many variables here as in any pick. Watching the opposing (non weight bearing) outriggers is in order at times.

As for the choking ....sometimes opposing chokes are good and sometimes not appropriate. An example.....I recall an episode of "Chainsaw For Hire" where the guy picked a piece right next to an overhang of a roof (and right under it) and the piece tore the roof structure right off the house. If opposing chokes were used and wedges so the saw did not get stuck it would not have happened. But it is nice to be able to use the single sided choke on the side you are finishing to allow measured cutting and slow separation and keep pressure off the blade.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

http://www.fox6now.com/news/witi-091117-tosa-tree,0,2180801.story

Here is an "interesting" one I was on yesterday. All i did was set rigging and help coach the ground guys all day. I did around 10-15 rides on the wire. I'm glad that the Fox6 left that out in the editing, don't want OSH or My Wife to see that

There just were not any really good TIP points in the tree with the decay courts. I had to move a few rig points down because of defects that concerned my with the picks. That and it was one of those sprawling twisty trees.

The reason for the huge picks was that they had a 55ft bucket to do the tree with 10 more feet would have been more productive, the street light across the way made for a few problems. Then there was the true line that snapped on the last top pick.

Over all it went OK, but the bucket guy tended to want the crane to force separation, untill the end and he started doing some very good snap-cuts.

 

[jomoco]

jomoco, I've always liked to set chokers/slings on the same side, as it allows the kerf to open up nicely while cutting from directly below the choke point in, and it allows the log to be set down much more easily than when the chokers are opposed. However, i think it would have made the logs easier to lift off the cut, if opposed. you agree?

I've rigged with opposing chokers the few times a perfectly vertical load lift was an absolute must, but generally speaking I prefer one choker, and heading my picks straight at the crane's center pin.

My heaviest pick with a 120 ton hydro was 28K.

jomoco

 

[treevet]

http://www.fox6now.com/news/witi-091117-tosa-tree,0,2180801.story

Great story and footage but surprised at the use of notches on chunk removals. I can see them sometimes if a leader has to slide out of a canopy or between trees but they almost always gonna give you shock load as they have to fall into the fulcrum of the bottom of the notch (to detach)(hinge in other words) and then they are gonna fall off the tree and into the side location of the sheave to accomodate all this giving shock load.

Interesting how they always gotta say we are "chopping" down a tree lol.

 

[rbtree]

My heaviest pick was 24k, with a 50 ton (its been 11 years, might have been an 80 ton). But it was a 9 foot giant sequoia, and the radius was under 30 feet.

The time for notches is if a large lateral is being lifted to vertical, and one cut might cause a bit of a barber chair, or splintering.

But cradling the load with two slings and lifting it out horizontally is common as well.

Good discussion, vet and jomoco know their stuff. You too, JPS, that's a tall elm!!!

 

[rbtree]

http://www.fox6now.com/news/witi-091117-tosa-tree,0,2180801.story

John, doesn't elm have to be debarked, burned or buried in that area? How about the wood, it makes fabulous furniture. I know you were just subbing, but hope it went to a better use than firewood. Here, there's at least three craftsman that take urban woods.

These guys are huge

www.urbanhardwoods.com

 

[treevet]

The time for notches is if a large lateral is being lifted to vertical, and one cut might cause a bit of a barber chair, or splintering.
elm!!!

yeah, forgot about that one

 

[UnityArborist]

in the news

There was a picture in my local paper up here in Eugene Oregon.

I was on a job site in Logan Utah back in 2005 when a 90' crane tipped. The boom punched a hole in the neighbors roof and crushed the brand new cedar fence and shed. The plan was to pic the top 30' off of a 70' cottonwood using a snap cut. The cut did not snap easily so more tension was applied, when it finally snapped the tree bounced up and shock loaded the crane. Tipping the whole rig over. The climber/owner of the outfit was out of the tree and was lucky he was. The boom scraped down the side of the tree where he had been and his rope still was. He would have been nothing more than a skid mark down the side of the tree had he not exited the tree.

It is a surreal experience see something like that happen. I know I will not ever forget that day, it is stored in High-Definition.

Be careful out there.

 

[Taxmantoo]

The wife of the couple that lived in and owned the home was in a traffic accident that morning and they were dealing with that when their neighbors called to tell them that the crane fell through their house.

Good for them. Beats sitting in the house when the crane came down.

 

[treevet]

John, doesn't elm have to be debarked, burned or buried in that area? How about the wood, it makes fabulous furniture. I know you were just subbing, but hope it went to a better use than firewood. Here, there's at least three craftsman that take urban woods.

These guys are huge

www.urbanhardwoods.com

That is a real classy link, esp. the slideshow.

 

[Hoister]

It appears to be a Grove GMK 5210 or GMK5240 mobile AT .. by the counter weight configuration its rented out as a 100-125T unit..a very good 100ton class unit to boot ..not just barely..

The crane had counter weight ..that black slab on the rear of the upper superstructure.. if there was more ..its very likely that the boom may have buckled versus a tipping condition ..


the crane was shock loaded according to an article



from an operator's stand point ..the conversation of tree hoisting comes up in general discussion ..The general consensus is basically the arborist take out a general liability insurance policy towards the hoisting ,get stamped engineering of all the aspects of the operation including crane capacity, crane placement,dunnage,etc.. and the list goes on ..

main reason's some arborist are rouge, the other, its nature ..until its free no-one knows for sure what it weighs and the crane is married to it .
couple that with an arrogant cutter and crane wise ignorant crew ..and you get these picture's..

I'm sorry ..that cutter had the option to cut a smaller piece ..its a very large crane if you dont deal with cranes much, and again if a guy doesnt know the mechanic's that make crane's work ..their own conclusion's of the operator's nerve are drawn into question( he's lying,he's saying smaller to stretch the job,he's scared) and the crew will cut a bigger piece ..because its a big crane ..

500 ton cranes can be reduced to 3ton cranes easily even with 186,000lbs of counter weight on ..

Overall ..It wouldn't hurt for allot of arborist to approach the Iron Workers and Operating Engineer's ...and get some real tangible education into the world of hoisting ..it would be more than beneficial to both parties ..

just some general reading regarding the accident on other boards ..

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http://forums.dhsdiecast.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=123576&p=2

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

The time for notches is if a large lateral is being lifted to vertical, and one cut might cause a bit of a barber chair, or splintering.But cradling the load with two slings and lifting it out horizontally is common as well.

This is what we were doing, if there was a back or side lean the pick would be to bring the load to vertical.

John, doesn't elm have to be debarked, burned or buried in that area? How about the wood, it makes fabulous furniture. I know you were just subbing, but hope it went to a better use than firewood. Here, there's at least three craftsman that take urban woods.

DED is now considered endemic, if it is a brood log then homeowners have to dispose, but the tree companies are allowed to yard the carp up.

At 300/cord most wood is worth more as firewood right now. Most of the local mills will not take anything that is residential/homestead wood. the largest no longer will except any delivered wood.

I love the grain of Ulmus a. and Ulmus r. and hope to be able to get some floors in my house done with something I take down in the next few years.

 

[treevet]

Interesting TV, I do the same thing without ever leaving the cut, crane side first and walk it around to the release point away from me and towards the crane, one smooth clean cut around the trunk.

jomoco

I have had this stuck in my head and just gotta have an explanation JM. It sounded real good at first read but with a say 30" cut like in the pict maybe.....you will start on the right side of the piece (prob. if right handed) and make the bottom or face cut on the boom side (standing on spikes).

Then you are going to work the cut (with the bottom of the saw blade I hope) back around the trunk to where it becomes a finishing cut while tacking with your spikes until you get on the left side of the trunk to finish.

The hole time you are moving around the trunk (with 2 tie ins (bucked in) I am sure) you are essentially spiking with "no hands" as both hands are on the saw cutting since "the saw never leaves the cut".

Or do you leave the saw running in the cut and take your hands off it to move or more logically turn the saw off in the cut and use your hands to move? If that is the case don't you think just staying on one side and making the face cut or back and then a finishing cut from the right side only would be better and quicker and more efficient (making sure you have a saw and bar big enough to get more than across the whole piece)?

I thought you might mean you are using a bucket but you still have to take your hands off the saw to move the bucket to work the cut around to finish.

Not trying to pick at you (so don't neg rep me again Treeco cause that was my first ever) just very curious.

 

[jomoco]

I can make that circular cut around the spar with either the top or bottom of my bar TV, and yes I leave it idling in the cut alone when I need both hands to spin my lanyards around the spar.

Even standing on the ground making my base cut, the cutting procedure itself is the same, crane side first, then walk around to the release point.

Remember I'm talkin fat wood here in the 40 inch plus range.

jomoco