cya...cover your ash

[treevet]

We've been on a steady almost every day involvement of ash removals in my heavily infested op area. I have taken down some very dangerous trees. Example...today I go up a 70 footer in woods over a house and piece down big ash over a house on a hill. Tree feels REAL shaky. I get weight off it as fast as possible. Another dead ash for about a year maybe 20 feet away was next. I looked at the condition of it, maybe a 60 footer and thought I'd do the best I could to pull it with the Dingo away from the house rather than climbing it after the feel of the first one. This one seemed worse.

I hooked it up to the Dingo, yanked a little to secure it prior to notching. The whole tree just uprooted and fell right over. If you guys got ash out there all over, dead for a year or more from eab...be careful. I think the battle with the bug for years depletes the defense so much that the wood decays/becomes altered very quickly. Towns are hit so quickly that people pretend to ignore dead trees and govts. got their own probs. rather than intervening. Be safe out there...no amt. of $ is worth your life. If it looks real bad...it probably is...pass it up and let Mr. HO pay for his own negligence.

 

[mattfr12]

Is EAB hitting your area pretty hard? They say it moves about 10 miles per year i don't think we are in full tilt of it yet.

 

[treevet]

We be in full tilt by next year. We got standing dead ash all over the place. By next year most untreated shi t sticks prob be dead.

 

[mattfr12]

We be in full tilt by next year. We got standing dead ash all over the place. By next year most untreated shi t sticks prob be dead.

Arbor jet is claiming you can get 2-3 years of coverage with the Tree Age Chemical. Its not super expensive about 500.00 for 1 liter you can do 2 big ash with it, 4 medium. i usually drench the soil also with some merit or comparable.

same here on the standing dead tho. they are dieing off here in record numbers before EAB even hits. The blight makes them #### the bed fast.

 

[treevet]

they likely are dieing from eab and you don't know it yet. I'd go to Mauget...much more user friendly and without the initial equipment cost. Works fine. Tree has to be healthy to use it tho.

 

[mattfr12]

they likely are dieing from eab and you don't know it yet. I'd go to Mauget...much more user friendly and without the initial equipment cost. Works fine. Tree has to be healthy to use it tho.

Explain? the larva or what I'm being serious, id like to try and keep some of them around here. I haven't seen the bug itself yet but have seen possible signs.

 

[treevet]

I think research has shown when you find eab in your town it has likely been around for 5 or more years undetected. We slam a perfectly healthy ash tree sometimes with NO signs...no D holes, no eliptical wounds, certainly no sign of larvae or adults and...a perfectly healthy piece of bark falls off and underneath is the serpentine galleries all over...under the bark piece that fell off, and on the exposed wood on the stem it fell off.

 

[mattfr12]

pretty amazing and terrible at the same time how they work. Ive seen what your talking about quite a bit.

 

[treevet]

They are truly amazing. We saw a couple of adults in my lot firewood pile in the spring. Not seen one since.

A pretty healthy ash can stand some infestation if treated and it may get better. Don't give up on the good ones. Just tell the ho that they are taking the chance on the survival and not you. Guy around here guarantees success. Have seen numerous treated ash by him dieing and he better have a good lawyer on retainer.

 

[mattfr12]

Agreed nothing like that is guaranteed. The only things I guarantee are that we will do what we said and your yard will be clean.

 

[ATH]

Is EAB hitting your area pretty hard? They say it moves about 10 miles per year i don't think we are in full tilt of it yet.

IMO, that is way to slow! More like 15-20 miles.

We are past "full tilt" in NW Ohio.

 

[ATH]

....If you guys got ash out there all over, dead for a year or more from eab...be careful. I think the battle with the bug for years depletes the defense so much that the wood decays/becomes altered very quickly. Towns are hit so quickly that people pretend to ignore dead trees and govts. got their own probs. rather than intervening. Be safe out there...no amt. of $ is worth your life. If it looks real bad...it probably is...pass it up and let Mr. HO pay for his own negligence.

Great post. Everybody who has been dealing with EAB says the same thing. Good to keep that word out ahead of the infestations.

I'd also add: put at least an extra hour more than you would expect on bid for raking. They like to shatter.

 

[ATH]

they likely are dieing from eab and you don't know it yet. I'd go to Mauget...much more user friendly and without the initial equipment cost. Works fine. Tree has to be healthy to use it tho.

What Mauget product?

The imidacloprid is no more effective when injected vs. soil drenched.

TREE-Age is the most effective...but at a price (several prices, actually): Chemical cost alone is $5.70 per inch of dbh (using 10ml per inch); $0.50 per plug seems high for what they are, but that is what they get for them; initial equipment is a little high, but a handful of trees covers that, and there is very little on-going cost. If you really wanted to, you could make your own pressurized injection system, but Arborjet has a decent set up...I just look at the Tree IV and think "this isn't $500 worth of stuff from the hardware store"! (don't waste your money on the QuickJet, it is not); Finally, the biggest cost is delivery time. Sometimes it dumps right in (30-45 minutes per tree from set up to tear down would be fast), other times on the same property, same sized tree, same time of day it takes 2 hours for the chemical to go into the tree...then you are about done with ash treatments for the day because it is useless to try to inject past noon.

Agree, that the tree has to be healthy to treat. I turn away business if the tree isn't...does not make me look good to take money to treat a tree for 5 years then watch it die.

 

[ATH]

Agreed nothing like that is guaranteed. The only things I guarantee are that we will do what we said and your yard will be clean.

I have clients asking about a guarantee. Most understand when I explain: "What do you want out of a guarantee? That, if we continue to treat the tree that it will be alive in 10, 12, or 15 years? There is no research to back that statement - we have only known this bug has existed since 2002. It would be foolish, and best, if not deceptive for me to make a guarantee when there is no data to base that on. You have to take my word, that I would not treat your tree if I didn't think it will work, but I can't make a guarantee based on my professional opinion without the long-term supporting measurable data. It doesn't matter how great I think my own opinions are you want facts when you use words like "guarantee" and facts need time to be tried and proven.

 

[treevet]

What Mauget product?

Imid early (long residual) and Bidrin (Injecticide B) later in summer as less residual but very quick moving. (Herms gave me the thumbs up on this)

The imidacloprid is no more effective when injected vs. soil drenched.

Typical response from those that fell for the Tree age. You must be listening to those pesky researchers (JK). We have many failures of street trees in my town from the slow soil treatment and not recommended for plus 17 inch dia. trees. Some living trees might as well be dead as it is a stretch to call them alive. Huge holes from EmBen Tree Age treatment despite 2 year residual. Mauget can be installed in less than 5 minutes with 2 people on a big tree...and then you can go do other work on property while it dispenses, unlike the Tree Age....etc.....yada yad.

TREE-Age is the most effective...but at a price (several prices, actually): Chemical cost alone is $5.70 per inch of dbh (using 10ml per inch); $0.50 per plug seems high for what they are, but that is what they get for them; initial equipment is a little high, but a handful of trees covers that, and there is very little on-going cost. If you really wanted to, you could make your own pressurized injection system, but Arborjet has a decent set up...I just look at the Tree IV and think "this isn't $500 worth of stuff from the hardware store"! (don't waste your money on the QuickJet, it is not); Finally, the biggest cost is delivery time. Sometimes it dumps right in (30-45 minutes per tree from set up to tear down would be fast), other times on the same property, same sized tree, same time of day it takes 2 hours for the chemical to go into the tree...then you are about done with ash treatments for the day because it is useless to try to inject past noon.

eeeeek (I saw it all in a day seminar) :bang:

Mauget is approved by researchers...I'd rather quit treatments all together than go thru this torture.

Agree, that the tree has to be healthy to treat. I turn away business if the tree isn't...does not make me look good to take money to treat a tree for 5 years then watch it die.

Some regular clients are just gonna insist on treatment if you got lots of clients from years of being in biz...you will have some failed treatments. Collect the money and run. I generally net over $15. per injection unit ( units cost about 4 bucks ea.) or, again, it's bye bye time. Way more money made than humping trees. Plus you are a total care svc.

 

[tree MDS]

Good thread vet!! They just discovered EAB here a couple month ago. Was on the news this morning.. something about a meeting to discuss how to "save our ash trees". Sounds almost kinda hopeless.. I guess time will tell. opcorn:

 

[treevet]

I have clients asking about a guarantee. Most understand when I explain: "What do you want out of a guarantee? That, if we continue to treat the tree that it will be alive in 10, 12, or 15 years? There is no research to back that statement - we have only known this bug has existed since 2002. It would be foolish, and best, if not deceptive for me to make a guarantee when there is no data to base that on. You have to take my word, that I would not treat your tree if I didn't think it will work, but I can't make a guarantee based on my professional opinion without the long-term supporting measurable data. It doesn't matter how great I think my own opinions are you want facts when you use words like "guarantee" and facts need time to be tried and proven.

Some trees historically are going to be marginal decisions. Many variables here to quantify even down the road. Health, environment, climate, precipitation, cultural practices by ho in future, disease and insect (other) attacks, storms...etc. all will be part of future issues impossible to predict.

 

[treevet]

Good thread vet!! They just discovered EAB here a couple month ago. Was on the news this morning.. something about a meeting to discuss how to "save our ash trees". Sounds almost kinda hopeless.. I guess time will tell. opcorn:

Get you a couple of cases of Imicide (don't really need any training if you read the instructions) and make some money next spring Paul.

 

[treevet]

I have clients asking about a guarantee. Most understand when I explain: "What do you want out of a guarantee? That, if we continue to treat the tree that it .

wanted to put up the vid of the "guarantee" scene in "Black Sheep" with Chris Farley but couldn't find it. But here is a scene anyway for a laugher..

[video=youtube_share;KKN6JJYIWWY]http://youtu.be/KKN6JJYIWWY[/video]

 

[treevet]

here is the plan...

you look at the tree and decide if it has approx. 80% healthy canopy (used to be 60% but researchers upped this this year) relative to eab degradation. if so treat with appropriate chems at optimum time (very important) according to manufacturer's label instructions and according to most current research guidelines. I can link this if anyone wants.

Dose and Timing.