flue heat extraction

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TreeCo said:
I know of a couple of cases where the Magic Heat has been involved in wood stove chimney fires that have caused serious damage to the dwelling. Just offering my two cents worth to those on the side lines that may be considering such a device. This thread seems like a trolling thread to me.
Click to expand...
LOL, troll + MH invented the chimnifire?
 
Phil_Marino said:
Based on my own experience with an EPA stove ( Quadrafire) that is not always true. Under normal conditions ( cold outside, when I need to get a lot of heat from the stove) the stovepipe temperature near the ceiling - read from a dial thermometer on the pipe - is usually between 350 and 400F ( with my heat extraction fans off).

And, I believe that it is safe to have flue gas temperatures as low as 230 - 250F without serious creosote deposits forming.

Problems can arise when you use heat extraction to lower flue gas temperatures too much.

Phil
Click to expand...

Phil - I am not going to say that in all cases the MH will reduce the stack temp to creosote levels, but I will venture a guess that a MH introduces into an exhaust system will go against every install procedure of every EPA stove MFG out there. The whole intent of the epa stoves is to maintain a "safe" stack temp without reducing the temps too far. Each install is different, but I personally will not "bump" the danger zone of those temps. For safety of my home and family, I will not attempt to extract that extra heat from the stack when it has a very real possibility, and even a likely probability of adding a layer of danger to the install.

NO EPA STOVE MFG recommends the use of these things. If someone chooses to install one, fine. Do so at your own risk, but the OP has been pushing these things as though he owns stock. And No Pook - I am not going to refute anything. I have said my piece, I am done and I am out.
 
pook said:
Yukon has a firebox & a secondary heat exchanger I see. so the fire burns & the smoke travels thru a set of tubes in a second chamber, the tubes are cooled by a fan so to provided heat for the house.
woodstove has a firebox & an added heat extractor [MAGIC HEAT] . so the fire burns & the smoke travels thru a set of tubes in a second chamber, the tubes are cooled by a fan so to provided heat for the house.
similar? so whats the diff? should i add a barodamper above the MH to make the 2 systems exactly the same?
draft regulation with a barometric damper requires no electric but sucks out room air. MH requires electric but sucks out no room air.......both will regulate the fire though the baro will do so more effectively--I currently have a MH on my sawdust burner to keep the system from overheating & it turns on & off as the MH thermostaT TELLS IT TO.....duh
http://www.yukon-eagle.com/FURNACES/EAGLEIHUSKY/HEATEXCHANGER/tabid/103/Default.aspx
Click to expand...
pulled the UL# off to see if it became :clap:unsafer. main point is peeps are nitpicking instead of addressing the point above:dizzy:
 
i cant speak for CK but i am an engineer and just making a blanket statement that both systems have the same features so they should act the same is not accurate. it might indicate that it would act similarly but even that can get thrown out the window in real life.

i think one of the key differances here is the yukon furnace was engineered and designed from the beginning with these tubes. i am sure they performed hundreds of man hours of testing with lab equipment to prove that there design is the safest and most economical design that they can get.

i used to work at a furnace company and have a good friend who still works there in engineering. they are NOT just throwing parts together and calling it good. there are allot of design iterations and thorough testing to be done.

back a long time ago i had a similar heat extractor on one of my shop wood stoves. it didnt last long because it got clogged up with crap and started restricting flow.

it might work fine for you but the general consensus is it is not recommended. it is generally not worth the extra hassle and work for the extra heat you might get out of it.

i hope this might help clear your question up, each stove is its own design with its own quarkes and natural running tendancies. if it works for you great, i hope it treat you well.:cheers:
 
My friend has 1 of the magic heat deals, He cleans his pipe every month, I was going to get one but I looked at My stove pipes and they stay pretty clean even when I damp the fire down alot, and all I burnt last year was green oak. He has a problem with keeping blower motors on it also. I dont know if its worth the extra hu-bus
 
Jredsjeep said:
i cant speak for CK but i am an engineer and just making a blanket statement that both systems have the same features so they should act the same is not accurate. it might indicate that it would act similarly but even that can get thrown out the window in real life.

i think one of the key differances here is the yukon furnace was engineered and designed from the beginning with these tubes. i am sure they performed hundreds of man hours of testing with lab equipment to prove that there design is the safest and most economical design that they can get.

i used to work at a furnace company and have a good friend who still works there in engineering. they are NOT just throwing parts together and calling it good. there are allot of design iterations and thorough testing to be done.

back a long time ago i had a similar heat extractor on one of my shop wood stoves. it didnt last long because it got clogged up with crap and started restricting flow.

it might work fine for you but the general consensus is it is not recommended. it is generally not worth the extra hassle and work for the extra heat you might get out of it.

i hope this might help clear your question up, each stove is its own design with its own quarkes and natural running tendancies. if it works for you great, i hope it treat you well.:cheers:
Click to expand...
engineer that coouldnt figure out wet wood was burning so to plug the MH? Both secondary chamber heat exchangers react to a thermostatic snapdisk for heat extraction from the fluegas via pipes & both systems are ul listed components. EPA stove or other can overfire & is designed to a certain draft or chimmni height. Any stove can burn inefficiently & deposit creo in a chimni. Imagine an overfiring stove into a creosoted chimni. The flame & heat from the stove will ignite a chimnifire. Now put a MH 1' above the stove= the flames will hit the tubes & the fan will subside the flames? +this
http://czarcar-magicheatassafetydevise.blogspot.com/
 
pook said:
engineer that coouldnt figure out wet wood was burning so to plug the MH? http://czarcar-magicheatassafetydevise.blogspot.com/
Click to expand...

thats a bit of an assumption, we actually burned almost exclusivly cut up pallets which anybody can tell you are dry. it was mostly quick hotter burns to get the shop warmer after work.

sorry i cant check out the link right now, it is blocked. i am not sure what brand i had but it wasent worth the time.

i understand it has a snap switch, mine also had that feature and a cleaner rod i could pull to knock off the build up. if it never builds up why would you need one? i can say though that even burning dry pallets it still built up crap internally on a regular basis and if i forgot to pull the rod to knock it off for a few fires it got extreemly hard to do and i would have to take it apart and manually clean it out.

just sharing my real life experiance and trying to shed some light on the previous question.

if you are not interested, no harm to me i can bow out, nothing to prove here.

i did get an engineering degree but i was a typical red neck long before that:hmm3grin2orange:
 
TreeCo said:
Looks like Pook has been beating the Magic Heat drum for a few years with much the same response......LOL!:deadhorse:

I had one given to me after it was responsible for conditions that started a house fire. I took it to a metal recycler just to get it out of circulation.:)

http://www.hearthtalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=444&sid=173f3ff72217ae14e6994c9d880a6ea5
Click to expand...

TreeCo said:
I know of a couple of cases where the Magic Heat has been involved in wood stove chimney fires that have caused serious damage to the dwelling. Just offering my two cents worth to those on the side lines that may be considering such a device. This thread seems like a trolling thread to me.
Click to expand...
:notrolls2:

:sucks:

:agree2::agree2::agree2:

REBOOT....DELETE.....IGNORE
 
TreeCo said:
Looks like Pook has been beating the Magic Heat drum for a few years with much the same response......LOL!:deadhorse:

I had one given to me after it was responsible for conditions that started a house fire. I took it to a metal recycler just to get it out of circulation.:)

http://www.hearthtalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=444&sid=173f3ff72217ae14e6994c9d880a6ea5
Click to expand...

:clap::clap::clap:

Kind of funny: In the link above there is a comment that the MH's are a hang over from barrel stoves - Pook burns in a barrel - a sawdust burner.

Shari
 
Jredsjeep said:
thats a bit of an assumption, we actually burned almost exclusivly cut up pallets which anybody can tell you are dry. it was mostly quick hotter burns to get the shop warmer after work.

sorry i cant check out the link right now, it is blocked. i am not sure what brand i had but it wasent worth the time.

i understand it has a snap switch, mine also had that feature and a cleaner rod i could pull to knock off the build up. if it never builds up why would you need one? i can say though that even burning dry pallets it still built up crap internally on a regular basis and if i forgot to pull the rod to knock it off for a few fires it got extreemly hard to do and i would have to take it apart and manually clean it out.

just sharing my real life experiance and trying to shed some light on the previous question.

if you are not interested, no harm to me i can bow out, nothing to prove here.

i did get an engineering degree but i was a typical red neck long before that:hmm3grin2orange:
Click to expand...
makes sense= too dry a wood with excessive surface gassification area results in inadequate combustion air & unburnt creosote,eh? This too is something peeps generally dont understand. sorry for engineer burn but when anyone comes out asserting their credentials as a basis for their comment i expect to be enlightened:givebeer: i've cleaned em by glowing the tubes red,plug in, & then scrape but i know my chimni......thanx 4 offer,will reply.......good lux
 
as per Woodheat.org

Boosting efficiency with a flue pipe mounted heat reclaimer?
I'm curious whether there are after market secondary heat exchangers available as accessories for residential use to be used to upgrade older pre-high efficiency wood furnaces. I'm just trying to find a way of harnessing those hot flue gases before they all escape out my chimney. Is ther anything short of actually buying a new furnace? Our old one still works but is extremely inefficient and sends a lot of hot gases up the chimney (especially in the coldest weather when we've got a large fire going.

Kevin


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Kevin,

Retrofit flue pipe mounted heat reclaimers used to be popular until it was learned that all they do is plug up with creosote. In Canada they are banned outright because of the hazard they represent. Advanced technology, high efficiency heaters don't achieve higher efficiency by extracting more heat from the flue gases, but by burning the wood more completely. Moreover, the chimney is the engine that drives a wood combustion system and it needs heat to work. You'll boost efficiency more by concentrating on burning the wood completely without smoke than by lowering flue gas temperature. You'll get higher efficiency by using these tips.

John
 
Pook has been busy for some time...back in "08"
Pook
secondary burn


Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 176
Location: Maine
Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:27 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i have one on my clean burning sawdust burner & IT CONTROLS THE DRAFT no goo. recently read a gulland script about excess draft in new epa stoves & majic heat was not mentioned for draft control...damper,barometric,blockage of secondary air intake were mentioned.
majic heat extractor does cool flue gas but in a proper firebox the condensed creosote can be returned to firebox via gravity after scraper plate is used.theyre made with proper configuration for woodstves so that the crimp goes down & creosote goo does not ooze out. lastly,the condensation of creosote & scrape back to firebox for reburn can only assist in making the exhaust gas less polluting.
THEY DO PROVIDE MORE HEAT! duh

:blob2::blob2::blob2::blob2::blob2::blob2::blob2:

I'm just wondering where all of your data is coming from or is it just your best guess??????
...and yes I just love the smiley I used...cute fella ain't he!
 
Last edited:
jags said:
Phil - I am not going to say that in all cases the MH will reduce the stack temp to creosote levels, but I will venture a guess that a MH introduces into an exhaust system will go against every install procedure of every EPA stove MFG out there. The whole intent of the epa stoves is to maintain a "safe" stack temp without reducing the temps too far. Each install is different, but I personally will not "bump" the danger zone of those temps. For safety of my home and family, I will not attempt to extract that extra heat from the stack when it has a very real possibility, and even a likely probability of adding a layer of danger to the install.

NO EPA STOVE MFG recommends the use of these things. If someone chooses to install one, fine. Do so at your own risk, but the OP has been pushing these things as though he owns stock. And No Pook - I am not going to refute anything. I have said my piece, I am done and I am out.
Click to expand...

Hi, Jags

I'm not talking about, or defending, the MH. I don't know anything about those.

I was responding to your earlier post where you said that EPA stoves "do not have excess heat to extract". In my experience, with my EPA stove, that is not true. My EPA stove does (often, but not always) have excess flue heat, and I extract it successfully while keeping the flue gas temperatures above 230F. I'm not using a MH to do that.

Phil
 
CrappieKeith said:
as per Woodheat.org

Boosting efficiency with a flue pipe mounted heat reclaimer?
I'm curious whether there are after market secondary heat exchangers available as accessories for residential use to be used to upgrade older pre-high efficiency wood furnaces. I'm just trying to find a way of harnessing those hot flue gases before they all escape out my chimney. Is ther anything short of actually buying a new furnace? Our old one still works but is extremely inefficient and sends a lot of hot gases up the chimney (especially in the coldest weather when we've got a large fire going.

Kevin


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Kevin,

Retrofit flue pipe mounted heat reclaimers used to be popular until it was learned that all they do is plug up with creosote. In Canada they are banned outright because of the hazard they represent. Advanced technology, high efficiency heaters don't achieve higher efficiency by extracting more heat from the flue gases, but by burning the wood more completely. Moreover, the chimney is the engine that drives a wood combustion system and it needs heat to work. You'll boost efficiency more by concentrating on burning the wood completely without smoke than by lowering flue gas temperature. You'll get higher efficiency by using these tips.

John
Click to expand...
CK ure avoiding directly addressing the MH vs yukon configuration, why? i willl repost more directly,promised,= i have no appreciation for salesmen,duh
 

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