I have a Partner 500 that will not start ?
- Thread starter Jeff Lary
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Unless I am missing somthing you still have not told us what you are talking about when you say open or closed are you talking cylinder or piston.I am heading to a saw shop this am and I will ask again.I am pretty sure the dealer whic sold partner and built a great buisness for the use of these saws fo his own logging company said all the pistons are the sam the diffrence comes fro the way the CYLINDER is ported one has small windows and one which he showed me has the same windows but are cut open all the way down to the jug bottom .BUT I sometimes get confused so I may have not heard him correctly.
Well I may have a reason,Matt I have tried to respond w/a quote but it keeps telling me that my message must be more than 1 character long?
Whatever I guess , anyway I tried the drop test but it was done without the muffler ,and when held by the rope only with no bar and chain for even more weight the saw slowly chuged its way to the floor.I either have piston jug wrong combo like suggested a few responces ago or one or the other ,jug ,piston or both are no good.I just got a pair of calipers yesterday is there a way to be sure the piston and jug are meant to be together? But be thinking about this ,...Does anyone have jug and piston used that they would sell me.I kind of hate to buy new as this will be saw number 7 so I really dont need to spend to much to have this saw run.I am still going to get the comp checked. I will keep you posted to the test results.If I can even post this somthing is going on.
Whatever I guess , anyway I tried the drop test but it was done without the muffler ,and when held by the rope only with no bar and chain for even more weight the saw slowly chuged its way to the floor.I either have piston jug wrong combo like suggested a few responces ago or one or the other ,jug ,piston or both are no good.I just got a pair of calipers yesterday is there a way to be sure the piston and jug are meant to be together? But be thinking about this ,...Does anyone have jug and piston used that they would sell me.I kind of hate to buy new as this will be saw number 7 so I really dont need to spend to much to have this saw run.I am still going to get the comp checked. I will keep you posted to the test results.If I can even post this somthing is going on.
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Jeff.....go bck and look closely at the pic in post #77...this a closed port cyl with a windowed piston. You are looking at the ex side....directly across is the intake port.....on the left and right are the transfer ports that direct the fuel up from the crankcase to the combustion chamber. Most modern saws have windowed pistons if they are closed port cyls but a lot of older designs had solid pistons with closed ports.
Now look at the pic in post #79 ....in this pic you are looking from the intake side and directly across is the ex port...on the left and right are the transfer ports..notice the difference?? This is an open port cyl which is uses a solid skirt piston or a piston with straight sides that are inline with the transfers but not a windowed piston. Though logic may make it look like the open port cyl will flow more air/fuel as it is so open in fact these cyl setups do not ever make as much power as the more preferred closed port designs. I hope that helps your understanding of the differences.
Now look at the pic in post #79 ....in this pic you are looking from the intake side and directly across is the ex port...on the left and right are the transfer ports..notice the difference?? This is an open port cyl which is uses a solid skirt piston or a piston with straight sides that are inline with the transfers but not a windowed piston. Though logic may make it look like the open port cyl will flow more air/fuel as it is so open in fact these cyl setups do not ever make as much power as the more preferred closed port designs. I hope that helps your understanding of the differences.
I didn't read the very closely. DSS has give you all the proper advice and steps to follow.
Have you tried a different plug? Recently I picked up an 066. I checked the spark. Nice fat blue spark at the Champion plug. Couldn't get it to run. I switched plugs to a new Bosch... it fired right up. :msp_confused:
Also, when you assembled the saw, do you have the ring end pin on the piston towards the intake side?
Have you replaced the fuel line going into the tank?
Have you tried a different plug? Recently I picked up an 066. I checked the spark. Nice fat blue spark at the Champion plug. Couldn't get it to run. I switched plugs to a new Bosch... it fired right up. :msp_confused:
Also, when you assembled the saw, do you have the ring end pin on the piston towards the intake side?
Have you replaced the fuel line going into the tank?
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To answer the previous post yes The piston pin and ring are in the correct position and the gas line is new.As everyone may have read Last night or this am ,I forgert everything is a kind of partner yellow haze to me. I preformed the drop test and the saw decended to the end of the recoil rope.So based on everything I knew and had heard in my life concerning compression It appeared that this 500 had very little.
I took the saw to a very trusted shop this morning and spoke to the older gentman who has helped me in the past with other saw and generator problems.His eyes really lit up when he saw my saw, he said so you are jeff w/the 500 He told me these were and are his all time favorite saw. I said yep and i think i have no compression can you test it.So about 15 min later ,(I figured he was messing with it some) he came back and said you wont believe it but this saw has 150# It is fine. He said if I had not had primed the cylinder so many times and thus washed the walls clean it would have been more.He said I tried a shot of either and it still wouldnt start.I think though that I know what the matter is.My saw has a small black box infront and to the right of the carb, and that he said is causing all the trouble I think?He said this box also controls the timing and he belives the timming is off. So I told him I have already tried a diffrent coil because this one is bleeding elec through the plug wire.But when I tried it i had no fire at all so I had to put the old coil back on for now.He told me to replace the coil and not connect the small black wire that goes from the coil to the small black box.If the saw ran the just run the wire to the switch as usuall. So i came home all excited and you can guess the result still no go.Then I said well I will remove the jug again and remove the permatex like someone suggested earlier and check to see if the impluse nipple was plugged with permatex.So I did that and no It was not plugged but I had more things in mind as well so I cleaned off the permatex and the paper gasket,got a new gasket and some threebond 1194.I put a little on the base set the gasket and checked the pin on the piston to be sure the ring was in the correct position it was.I put the jug back on and moved to carburation.I started with the rubber boot and the inpluse nipple.I put a little three bond on the boot and set it on the jug then some on the outside of the tiny nipple rubber seal and slid that into position.Then 1194 on the back of the carb where it goes onto the rubber boot and slid the carb on it and into the impluse nipple. Now the next thing was to change out the carb with a freshly cleaned one and put her all back together.And guess what I still does not run If youprime the carb it will run a little but not much and not good I have screwed the low speed jet about 3 miles i think in and out and every fraction from 1/4 turn to 3 turns and no go. If you prime it and pull it about 30 times it will run for 7 or 8 sec, but if you touch the throttle she dies. I now think that maybe it may be some sort of carb issue but these two carbs came from running saws. So my next step is to take it to the shop i guess I give up i have done evry thing to every system that I know how to do.
The compression is 150#.....The spark is bright blue but i have been using the same plug all this time maybe I should try a new one?....The carbs came from running saws?...The flywheel is in the correct position the key is in place.....It has all new gas and vent lines....The coil has been changed numerous times...when primed it will sometims run and sometimes it will not I think it getts flooded i prime with about 2 tbl spoons every time.
I took the saw to a very trusted shop this morning and spoke to the older gentman who has helped me in the past with other saw and generator problems.His eyes really lit up when he saw my saw, he said so you are jeff w/the 500 He told me these were and are his all time favorite saw. I said yep and i think i have no compression can you test it.So about 15 min later ,(I figured he was messing with it some) he came back and said you wont believe it but this saw has 150# It is fine. He said if I had not had primed the cylinder so many times and thus washed the walls clean it would have been more.He said I tried a shot of either and it still wouldnt start.I think though that I know what the matter is.My saw has a small black box infront and to the right of the carb, and that he said is causing all the trouble I think?He said this box also controls the timing and he belives the timming is off. So I told him I have already tried a diffrent coil because this one is bleeding elec through the plug wire.But when I tried it i had no fire at all so I had to put the old coil back on for now.He told me to replace the coil and not connect the small black wire that goes from the coil to the small black box.If the saw ran the just run the wire to the switch as usuall. So i came home all excited and you can guess the result still no go.Then I said well I will remove the jug again and remove the permatex like someone suggested earlier and check to see if the impluse nipple was plugged with permatex.So I did that and no It was not plugged but I had more things in mind as well so I cleaned off the permatex and the paper gasket,got a new gasket and some threebond 1194.I put a little on the base set the gasket and checked the pin on the piston to be sure the ring was in the correct position it was.I put the jug back on and moved to carburation.I started with the rubber boot and the inpluse nipple.I put a little three bond on the boot and set it on the jug then some on the outside of the tiny nipple rubber seal and slid that into position.Then 1194 on the back of the carb where it goes onto the rubber boot and slid the carb on it and into the impluse nipple. Now the next thing was to change out the carb with a freshly cleaned one and put her all back together.And guess what I still does not run If youprime the carb it will run a little but not much and not good I have screwed the low speed jet about 3 miles i think in and out and every fraction from 1/4 turn to 3 turns and no go. If you prime it and pull it about 30 times it will run for 7 or 8 sec, but if you touch the throttle she dies. I now think that maybe it may be some sort of carb issue but these two carbs came from running saws. So my next step is to take it to the shop i guess I give up i have done evry thing to every system that I know how to do.
The compression is 150#.....The spark is bright blue but i have been using the same plug all this time maybe I should try a new one?....The carbs came from running saws?...The flywheel is in the correct position the key is in place.....It has all new gas and vent lines....The coil has been changed numerous times...when primed it will sometims run and sometimes it will not I think it getts flooded i prime with about 2 tbl spoons every time.
Quacker152
ArboristSite Member
almondgt
Addicted to ArboristSite
I would like to see a picture of the piston and cylinder you are using. The cylinder has to match the piston or all your work is for not. Does the piston have windows as in post 77 or is it solid? Is the cylinder closed around the opening like the picture I provided in post 77 or different?
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The piston has windows and the cylinder is closed port
I really should not answer you like that ,I have had that apart at least 10 times maybe more I think that is the setup But honestly I am not sure.I did notice somthing though I have no more pistons but I have 4 or 5 jugs .Each jug has the impulse nipple hole but did you ever notice that whenthe jug is bolted down that opening is blocked by the flatsurface of the base? In mine at least it does not seem to go anywhere unless I am missing somthing?
jimdad07
Addicted to ArboristSite
Not trying to hijack, but if you guys can please check this thread out: http://www.arboristsite.com/off-topic-forum/188558-23.htm#post3392218, this family could use some well wishing.
Ok just got off the phone.I explained what I thought happend to the impuse nipple when youbolt the jug down and the old fella said yes that is true BUT if his memory serves the base gasket had a slight grove in it to allow the impluse to get from the base to the diaphram.He suggested that i take it apart again and cut a small grove in the gasket that I made to allow this to work right. What do you thin of this idea? If i do take it apart i will get a couple of pic'c.I asked him if he thought that I may have the wrong piston I told him I had been told the 500 and 5000 were the same piston.Then I got to thinking about what the orig shop may have mentmaybe they ment they were the same diamiter.But just assumed that I would know that there are diffrent styles of piston shapes? The owner of the shop that told me this was and is the guy that did a large part of the ordering of parts and run the place but is not a technician himself.
guess i am lost but what is this all about makes no sence to me?
OK, first, you don't need all that 3 bond. You can use either a base gasket or 3 bond but you don't need to use both. I don't recommend it around the carb either. Anyway..
Try a new plug. Even if your impulse is plugged, it should run on a prime, it just won't pump fuel. If you tear it down to check the gasket, take pictures of the piston and jug so we can see what you got going.
Let us know. To me, it not running on a prime means ignition problems. Or the wrong piston.
Try a new plug. Even if your impulse is plugged, it should run on a prime, it just won't pump fuel. If you tear it down to check the gasket, take pictures of the piston and jug so we can see what you got going.
Let us know. To me, it not running on a prime means ignition problems. Or the wrong piston.
I am leaning towards wron piston,I jumped to con clusions when the saw shop said the 500 and 5k were the same piston I bet he meant same size.I am going to have to tear it down again but getting sick of it now ya know the fun is gone.That hoever may be my fault though.
Now let me ask this if I get a picture of inside the jug and the piston alone can you tell me what piston to use with the jug?
Now let me ask this if I get a picture of inside the jug and the piston alone can you tell me what piston to use with the jug?
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Yes.
You don't need much. There's not much pressure in the base of a saw. It's not like the head gasket on a car. Just put a little 3 bond, not enough to plug the hole. Or you can use the gasket, my point just was that you don't need both.
LMAO, did YOU read the whole thing? You asked if we could tell you which piston to use.
