low ballers stealing work

[Timothy Kasulin]

the last 3 estimates ive been out ion i have given very competative prices on and some fly by night guy has come by and underbid them. Does anyone have any feedbackk on what I can do to keep this from happening or is it just something that I should just keep expecting to happen. this time of season i really count on all the work that i can get and i cant afford to keep losing bussiness this way.Any help would be greatly appreciated

 

[treeclimber165]

Timothy, I can appreciate how you feel. The only thing that worked for me was to impress on the customer that I KNEW what I was doing and would trim/remove his trees SAFELY and PROPERLY.
The reasonable person would recognize that:
1) If I performed the work more safely than the uninsured fly-by-night, he has no (or at least less) liability for injuries/property damage on the job.
2) If I perform the work properly, his trees will be healthier in the future, therefore less expensive to maintain in the long run.

Stress that comparing your PRICE to the fly-by-night is comparing apples and oranges. They do NOT offer the same service that you do. Then keep in mind that HALF the people you talk to have an I.Q. LOWER than 100, and don't take the rejections personally. They either do not understand the difference, or do not care.

 

[Eric E.]

If I'm going to lose money I'd rather stay home. Why go bust your butt all day to lose money. Most of the people who are price shopping will be difficult coustomers. I try to deal with clients that are more interested in value, not price.

 

[UrbanEarth]

It is frustrating, but people who go with lowballers are probably not who you want as customers!
As Treeclimber said, emphasize your professionalism, knowledge, and insurance. Maybe put together a small flyer with quotes from happy satisfied (long term?) customers. Also include a list of questions to ask all contractors (Do you have insurance? Liability? WCB? etc. etc.)
I would also say resist the temptation to lower your price just to get the work. Hang in there!

Alan

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Try the workman's comp pitch. Explain how important it is and how if a worker gets hurt without it, the homeowner could loose everything in a lawsuit. A simple back injury could put a worker out for ever.
Most Fly-by-Knights don't have Workmans comp.

 

[Treeman14]

There are several LARGE companies here who have managed to skirt the law regarding Worker's Comp and Liability insurance. One company pays almost all of its employees in cash, no worker's comp., no liability, no payroll taxes. They keep one or two employees on the payroll so they can still provide a certificate of insurance to customers. But they have about fifteen or twenty cash employees.

Another company treats its employees as subcontractors. These "subs" lease the equipment and are supposed to carry their own insurance, yeah right. This company has 6 to 10 crews working all the time. The office workers are covered by worker's comp., so that a certificate of insurance can be provided to potential customers. (Comp rates for tree pruning>$38.04 per $100.00...for office/clerical>$0.59 per $100.00 payroll.)

These companies are some of the largest and oldest in this area. Can anything be done to expose their illegal and unethical practises? Let me know if you have any ideas.

 

[monkeypuzzle]

WWJD i just had to Treeman14

 

[HUSKYMAN]

The other thing companies do is hire workers from a temp agency. The temp agency pays everything from payroll taxes to workmens comp. I work in the moving industry as my day job, and we have LOTS of comp injuries. All a person has to do is pick up the phone and call Labor Guys inc and they can have four sets of arms and legs ready to work. I have no doubts that some companies stick saws in these guys hands and tell them to go for it. Also we serve two types of clients. Type A is rich and can afford our high prices and type B who wants you to move their 700# gun safe and Grand Piano for $75.00. We let Two Men and a Truck have the other stuff because if we do 50 safe moves and one man gets hurt on one of the 50 jobs there goes the profit for all 50.

 

[Darin]

I hand them a copy of my insurance as a selling tool and references. If you have credit at a equipment shop or dump (something related to the industry) it helps too. Have those handy on a reference and explain that you are welcome to check some of my credit references, as I pay my bills. The guys that pay their bills will be the guys that can help you in the future or even worse if there is a problem ( they are there for the $$$ once they are gone, they are gone for good.) Try to get on a consumer advocate list. I am on one here in Denver it works great ( www.troubleshooter.com they are syndicated so it might have one in your area ). They separate the good from the bad.

Its not worth taking a job to stay busy. You loose money and respect this way.

Good Luck.

 

[Treeman14]

Thanks, Monkeypuzzle. You're right, of course. I guess that's why I haven't done anything but watch these guys prosper for sixteen years. "Vengeance is mine", saith the Lord. It still burns me up sometimes, though.

So, What WOULD Jesus Do? Confront them directly, like the money changers in the temple? Tell them to come down out of that sycamore tree and follow me?

 

[Timothy Kasulin]

nice answer Tree man he would probably say nothing like he did on his walk to calery and just let thgem be exposed as they are the truth will always come out p.s. Jesus is Lord

 

[Toddppm]

Maybe you're just attracting the wrong kind of customers, what kind of advertising are you doing? When I advertised in the small local papers that's exactly the kind of customers I was getting and people that want their trees topped. I did get alot of good ones too but mostly the bargain hunters. Most of the calls from the yellow pages or direct mail are serious about getting a professional.
Try not to put the other companies down it only makes you look bad to the customer, just play yourself and your company up. Now if I could follow my own advice I'd be better off! I've blurted out some bad stuff when bidding jobs where they wanted topping or I knew the other co. was going to spike the trees.

Treeman14 , I never heard about that angle but I'd bet there are a couple big companies doing that here too. I know one of them make the guys buy their equipment, was wondering why, I bet that's it. This is a large co. too, maybe 6 or 7 crews , each one with new bucket/crane trucks/chippers and dumps . They under bid me almost evertime. I couldn't figure out how they could do it
Tree topping/spike wearing pieces of SSSH......

 

[Timothy Kasulin]

right now I am advertising in a local paper and I am attracting alot of bargain shoppers like you said. What other ways can I advertise that are affordable. I want to start attracting a bbunch of clients that are looking for profoessional work to be done.

 

[treeclimber165]

Probably not the answer you want TODAY, but I had excellent results by simply asking my satisfied customers to refer me to their friends as I was collecting the check! Virtually all my work that I did for myself was from referrals. Worked out great when I had my 'Gummint' job working in the forestry division for a small municipality. I got off work at 3:30 and did small jobs after work, bigger jobs on Saturday. I ended up getting busy enough to keep me going full time for a few years. Even though I quit doing work for myself 3 years ago, I still get calls that I forward to a couple buddies.

 

[UrbanEarth]

One thing that I try and do is use direct mail to areas that I am interested in working (Usually wealthier areas, although you still get cheapskates in $500,000 homes!). One problem that yellow pages and newspapers have is that they advertise to everyone, whether you want to or not. I prefer smaller well aimed marketing as opposed to the shotgun approach. Make up a flyer (which emphasizes all of the points that everyone has made) drive around your area and be choosy. I always use the postal service, as this gets your flyer delivered with 'important' mail.

On another note, maybe try to increase your referal business from happy customers.

Alan

 

[nositting]

Darin had a GREAT suggestion. Show them your proof of #1 insurance and #2 comments from happy customers that would use your services in the future. I NEVER bad mouth other specific companies, but I do let potential clients know that there are fly by night guys who claim to have insurance, but don't, and that they should always ask for proof (this may even include the phone # of an ins. agent to see that the ins. is current).

On another note, I don't mind fly by nighters too much. I've always enjoyed competition and thought (when done legally) it pushes us to all be better. Fly by nighters are sloppy and perhaps they'll get whatever they deserve soon enough. It's not my place to judge them, just educate the consumer. I know this may result in flames, but I don't mind.

 

[nositting]

Also liked Treeclimber165's comment on asking for refferals. We get about a third of our business this way (we're a small company but do a good job).

 

[Tree Critter]

I do not advertise right now, and have more than enough work by word of mouth and good people skills. Of coarse I am only dong tree work on the weekends. I got a job recently from somone who was "price shopping" even though I bid slightly higher. The customer told me that the other guy was big on bashing fly by nighters and bragging about himself, and when they said they wanted to take some more bids, he got kind of rude. They picked me because I was more profesional, and confident in myself. I think that the other methods mentioned, along with a profesional attitude goes a long way.

 

[lhampton]

We just recently lost out on a big, multi-year contract at a Church. The word we got was that it was tied up in the budget process. I drive by and see three guys going at it with pole saws. Loading brush on a flat bed trailer pulled by an old blue pick-up. I'm sure they'll get all they paid for.

A lot of our work is from referrals, occasionally made by the fly-by-nighters. They know we have more overhead and charge more so they suggest to the homeowner that they should get another estimate, "Call these guys...You'll see that our prices are reasonable." You can beat them when they do this. I don't just try to sell work, but talk with the client about their trees. What is right as well as what is wrong. A lot of times you'll find out that they or a family member planted the tree and has a real personal attachment to it. They are looking for someone who is caring and knowledgable. You can make long term clients this way.

This time of year we also have time to do more cold calls. We are playing with post cards and other mailers, but the most effective to date are the doorhangers we have used for mistletoe. A lot of people use generic doorhangers and just canvas an area. We try to be a little different. We have developed a "Fact Sheet" that describes mistletoe and what it can do if allowed to go unchecked. We target streets and neighborhoods with a lot of mistletoe, add a short handwritten note to make it more personal. "I was in the neighborhood and I noticed your Cedar Elm has mistletoe. Please call if you would like to discuss mistletoe removal or any other tree care concerns."
Instead of a list of services that our company provides, asking if they have a need. We have identified the need, and offer a service. Since Mistletoe removal isn't just a one time thing, we also get good followup, pruning, fert. results with this method.

Louie Hampton

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Yep yep, sell yourself, not the job. What you want are clients that will allow you to care for their property.

With the refferal cards, I had some with a discount on future work for the client who gave the refferance. Jon Doe gives me a card with Judy Smiths name on it. I give her $20 off the hedge job I want to sell her, after Mr. Does work is completed. (shrubs are bread and buttere work, they need work every year.) One more thing, put an expiration date on the cards, maybe 90 days or so.

Another thing is to have an opinion survey, wiht a box saying I donot want this to be used in any marketing by XYZ tree service. It is an opt out. If you want show maore integrity, have a Bold well paced box saying thet "XYZ tree service may use these statemnts for marketing purposes." Then with this permission you pull them out as testimonials "Here Mrs. Cszyzimensky down the road wrot this nice not on my survay."