mixing ratios for 2 stroke chainsaws

[bwalker]

Personally, my suggestion was do what the manufacturer recommends . LOL

The manufacturers didn't change their oil ratio recommendations with the move to strato charged engines which use 25-35% less fuel and thus less oil. In addition they have much heavier rotating assemblies which further streases bearings. You think that was a smart move? I bet the engineering department didn't think that was a smart move, but they don't make the call in these sorts decisions.

 

[bwalker]

I’m pretty sure ford dipped them after the shells were together. But galvanized not galvanized road salt don’t care I oil spray my vehicles.

Not in a long time. Maybe in the 60's and 70's for priming purposes.

 

[bwalker]

All you have is ad-hominem attacks. It sounds to me as though you are jealous of engineers. Your later posts reinforce that. And while I agree that more data points would be better, I stated that the suggested tests would be a MINIMUM. What part of that don't you understand? I have no need to tell you which discipline my degree is in, as it is irrelevant. All engineers know how to conduct experiments and analyze data. You used the term "allegedly" about my engineering degree as though you doubt I have one. I would bet you serious money that I could prove it except I would get kicked off the forum. Your ad-hominem attacks on people that conduct real tests and show real data makes you just like the liberal censors at FaceBook, TikTok, CNN, etc., who suppress views contrary to theirs.

I didn't ad hominem attack you in any way. I did ask for your credentials since your throwing your title around. Then you come back with " I could prove it, but would be kicked off the forum". I about rolled out of my chair laughing.
And you are right engineers typically no how to experiment and analyze data, methodologies, etc. Which is why it's perplexing that you find home brewed tests on YouTube even remotely valid. It's also further perplexing your train of thought on this subject. Which leads me to believe your not a real engineer or if you are it's in a discipline unrelated to mechanics.
As for engineers and any jealousy. Not in the least. I admire some of them that are competent at what they do. Most aren't and operate in the realm of theory only. When field results dont much what theory suggests they get tied into all sprts of knots. In addition I have almost always worked in supervision and have always made more money than engineers that actually did engineering work. A certified union operator at my current job makes more than a project engineer. I actuallybwork with several engineers that are operators for this exact reason. A engineer can make really good money, but typicaly only if they get into management. That makes sense
because machines are not hard to figure out, but people sure are.
And I didn't proof read this so forgive the grammar and spelling errors...

 

[J D]

The manufacturers didn't change their oil ratio recommendations with the move to strato charged engines which use 25-35% less fuel and thus less oil. In addition they have much heavier rotating assemblies which further streases bearings. You think that was a smart move? I bet the engineering department didn't think that was a smart move, but they don't make the call in these sorts decisions.

I can just imagine the chain of conversation...
Engineer: "We've come up with a new 2 stroke motor that uses 30% less fuel & has half the emissions"
Advertising: "that's great, but looks like you want to run it at 32:1... we can't market that"
Engineer: "but it's using the same amount of oil & is better in every other respect"
Management: "what happens if we run it at 50:1?"
Engineer: "it won't last as long"
Management: "will it last the warranty period?"
Engineer: "I'd expect so, but..."
Advertising: "sweet, we can work with that"
Engineer: "but..."
Management: "cool, good work team"
Engineer: "but..."
Management: "it's kind of heavy for the power isn't it"
Engineer: "we're still working on that, but about the oil..."
Advertising: "don't worry about that, we'll just focus on the other spec's"
Management: "excellent, I'll let production know its a go then"
Engineer: "but..."
Management: "great meeting guys, catch up with you again at the review"
Engineer: *perplexed, walks out shaking his head & considering his options as an operator*

 

[ZeroJunk]

The manufacturers didn't change their oil ratio recommendations with the move to strato charged engines which use 25-35% less fuel and thus less oil. In addition they have much heavier rotating assemblies which further streases bearings. You think that was a smart move? I bet the engineering department didn't think that was a smart move, but they don't make the call in these sorts decisions.

Consider how much of that 25% or 30% did anything on the way through with the gasoline that didn't do anything ?
I'm starting to get some of the "strato" saws in with some issues, but not bearing or scored piston issues, so far anyway.

Like a said earlier, I have a tree service guy that has three of the MS362's that had "strato" carburetors and they have a zillion hours on them. But, he may run 4 to 1 for all I know.

I just have to go what I see.

 

[sean donato]

I once serviced an old Homelite XL-1 for a friend who bought it used cheap at an estate sale. The saw would literally not run fast enough to spin up the chain, not even high idle. I found out why when I pulled apart the muffler, it was choked up with so much carbon it only had a few pinholes left to pass the exhaust gas. It was a muffler like this.

View attachment 1034072

Almost every one of those vents were plugged solid. To this day I have never seen this amount of carbon build up in a muffler, I can only speculate as to how it got in that condition as it was impossible for the saw to cut wood. My best guess is that someone let it idle through a complete or even several tanks of gas with a rich mixture, wrong oil, bad gas or a combination of them.
I have several of these saws, and have never had any significant carbon buildup in any of their mufflers. I run Castrol 2t for the most part, I don't think it's anything special as oils go, but it has never plugged up a screen or baffle.
I suppose proper tuning is the key with any oil/mix ratio, personally it bugs me when a saw doesn't sound right, and the mix adjustment screwdriver is always close by during any cutting secession.

A lot of guys tune using smoke and not how the saw/ equipment is running. See this a decent bit in newbies to rc 2 strokes. They think it should be like a nitro and smoke like a pig.

That MAY be true. However, at least for pro saws, it is in the manufacturers' best interest to make a product with high reliability, and that includes the oil recommendation, because pro users share their experiences, this forum being one example of where they do so. If a lot of people complained that their saws were wearing out quickly, that would hurt sales. Planned obsolescence may be the goal for consumer saws, but I doubt that would work for pro saws.

I doubt they care very mush at all, all the issues the early stratto and m-tronic/autotune saws had that still took years for them to figure out the issues. Besides that the average "pro" saw only lasts my logging buddy 2 possibly 3 years and it's hammered both physically and mechanically.

Must be why husky out of nowhere now recommends 32:1 in it's bigger cc pro saws I wonder why? is it due to so many premature failures? Husky recommending more oil is beneficial for a saws longevity has officially blown the minds of the 50:1 crowd lol

It's not out of no where and not new. Larger 2 series saws have multiple reccomendations listed in the manuals. Typically 50 to 1, 33 to 1 and 25 to 1 for a 288xp. The manual also state to speak with your dealer to determine ratio.
This is a screen shot from a 1997 manual for a 2101 showing 25 to 1 ratio.
This isn't anything new. The late 90s 50 to 1 was just what went Industry standard.

 

[rogue60]

A lot of guys tune using smoke and not how the saw/ equipment is running. See this a decent bit in newbies to rc 2 strokes. They think it should be like a nitro and smoke like a pig.

I doubt they care very mush at all, all the issues the early stratto and m-tronic/autotune saws had that still took years for them to figure out the issues. Besides that the average "pro" saw only lasts my logging buddy 2 possibly 3 years and it's hammered both physically and mechanically.

It's not out of no where and not new. Larger 2 series saws have multiple reccomendations listed in the manuals. Typically 50 to 1, 33 to 1 and 25 to 1 for a 288xp. The manual also state to speak with your dealer to determine ratio.
This is a screen shot from a 1997 manual for a 2101 showing 25 to 1 ratio.
This isn't anything new. The late 90s 50 to 1 was just what went Industry standard.

Yeah I know I was directing it at the never stray from 50:1 crowd. Down here Stihl manuals always used to say if not using stihl oil run 25:1 in pro saws. This was still in the manuals up to the last of the ms660 and ms880 can't remember what the ms661 manual says I'll see if I can find one.

 

[camel2019]

Not in a long time. Maybe in the 60's and 70's for priming purposes.

80’s too they were still using body solder on the joints for the roofs of fox body mustangs too. As a matter of fact chevy trucks and cargo vans from the late 80’s into the 90’s are some sort of galvanized and the paint they used never stuck very well.

 

[Lawless]

I can just imagine the chain of conversation...
Engineer: "We've come up with a new 2 stroke motor that uses 30% less fuel & has half the emissions"
Advertising: "that's great, but looks like you want to run it at 32:1... we can't market that"
Engineer: "but it's using the same amount of oil & is better in every other respect"
Management: "what happens if we run it at 50:1?"
Engineer: "it won't last as long"
Management: "will it last the warranty period?"
Engineer: "I'd expect so, but..."
Advertising: "sweet, we can work with that"
Engineer: "but..."
Management: "cool, good work team"
Engineer: "but..."
Management: "it's kind of heavy for the power isn't it"
Engineer: "we're still working on that, but about the oil..."
Advertising: "don't worry about that, we'll just focus on the other spec's"
Management: "excellent, I'll let production know its a go then"
Engineer: "but..."
Management: "great meeting guys, catch up with you again at the review"
Engineer: *perplexed, walks out shaking his head & considering his options as an operator*

A long time ago as a young team leading master tech for a GM dealer…

There was an S10 with engine noise. We wanted to replace it, it needed it and usually we had freedom to do it. Our new rep came out to see the truck and introduce himself. He wanted us to pull the oil pan and replace rod bearings. I and others tried to explain that this was a piston knock and bearings wouldn’t fix it. He said put the bearings in it

So I had the bearings put in it and same issue. He then told us to let the customer drive it a bit to see if it improved

This was a nice older man who simply got an unlucky break in his brand new truck. I argued this point and the rep looked me in the eye and said “our job isn’t to get this guy another 36000 miles, it’s to get him TO 36000 miles”.

I and the shop foreman laid a brick on the accelerator in the wash house that evening with the manager’s knowledge. Got a new engine coming soon after.

Rep said “I guess now we know what was wrong”

Manufacturers as a whole are huge and uncaring. In my experience 2 that stand out as very customer concerned are Kubota and Honda.

 

[sean donato]

A long time ago as a young team leading master tech for a GM dealer…

There was an S10 with engine noise. We wanted to replace it, it needed it and usually we had freedom to do it. Our new rep came out to see the truck and introduce himself. He wanted us to pull the oil pan and replace rod bearings. I and others tried to explain that this was a piston knock and bearings wouldn’t fix it. He said put the bearings in it

So I had the bearings put in it and same issue. He then told us to let the customer drive it a bit to see if it improved

This was a nice older man who simply got an unlucky break in his brand new truck. I argued this point and the rep looked me in the eye and said “our job isn’t to get this guy another 36000 miles, it’s to get him TO 36000 miles”.

I and the shop foreman laid a brick on the accelerator in the wash house that evening with the manager’s knowledge. Got a new engine coming soon after.

Rep said “I guess now we know what was wrong”

Manufacturers as a whole are huge and uncaring. In my experience 2 that stand out as very customer concerned are Kubota and Honda.

I'm on a kubota tractor site and a fair few of them will say kubota has the same mantra. The local dealer has the same thought, get it through the warranty period..

 

[Lawless]

I'm on a kubota tractor site and a fair few of them will say kubota has the same mantra. The local dealer has the same thought, get it through the warranty period..

Sorry for that. It has not been my experience.

 

[skeet88]

I didn't ad hominem attack you in any way. I did ask for your credentials since your throwing your title around. Then you come back with " I could prove it, but would be kicked off the forum". I about rolled out of my chair laughing.
And you are right engineers typically no how to experiment and analyze data, methodologies, etc. Which is why it's perplexing that you find home brewed tests on YouTube even remotely valid. It's also further perplexing your train of thought on this subject. Which leads me to believe your not a real engineer or if you are it's in a discipline unrelated to mechanics.
As for engineers and any jealousy. Not in the least. I admire some of them that are competent at what they do. Most aren't and operate in the realm of theory only. When field results dont much what theory suggests they get tied into all sprts of knots. In addition I have almost always worked in supervision and have always made more money than engineers that actually did engineering work. A certified union operator at my current job makes more than a project engineer. I actuallybwork with several engineers that are operators for this exact reason. A engineer can make really good money, but typicaly only if they get into management. That makes sense
because machines are not hard to figure out, but people sure are.
And I didn't proof read this so forgive the grammar and spelling errors...

Sounds like the pulp and paper industry.We have guys coming off the farm starting out more than an engineer going to school for 4 years. I use to cuss engineers daily when I worked on JD tractors. Who in their right mind would design a tractor where you had to remove the cab to replace a fuel tank sending unit! Y’all Be Good and Have a Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[camel2019]

Sounds like the pulp and paper industry.We have guys coming off the farm starting out more than an engineer going to school for 4 years. I use to cuss engineers daily when I worked on JD tractors. Who in their right mind would design a tractor where you had to remove the cab to replace a fuel tank sending unit! Y’all Be Good and Have a Happy Thanksgiving!

Gravity feed with a carb ie vintage tractors still do their jobs

 

[bwalker]

I can just imagine the chain of conversation...



Engineer: "We've come up with a new 2 stroke motor that uses 30% less fuel & has half the emissions"



Advertising: "that's great, but looks like you want to run it at 32:1... we can't market that"



Engineer: "but it's using the same amount of oil & is better in every other respect"



Management: "what happens if we run it at 50:1?"



Engineer: "it won't last as long"



Management: "will it last the warranty period?"



Engineer: "I'd expect so, but..."



Advertising: "sweet, we can work with that"



Engineer: "but..."



Management: "cool, good work team"



Engineer: "but..."



Management: "it's kind of heavy for the power isn't it"



Engineer: "we're still working on that, but about the oil..."



Advertising: "don't worry about that, we'll just focus on the other spec's"



Management: "excellent, I'll let production know its a go then"



Engineer: "but..."



Management: "great meeting guys, catch up with you again at the review"



Engineer: *perplexed, walks out shaking his head & consiIdering his options as an operator*



Consider how much of that 25% or 30% did anything on the way through with the gasoline that didn't do anything ?

I'm starting to get some of the "strato" saws in with some issues, but not bearing or scored piston issues, so far anyway.



Like a said earlier, I have a tree service guy that has three of the MS362's that had "strato" carburetors and they have a zillion hours We have on them. But, he may run 4 to 1 for all I know.



I just have to go what I see.

Consider how much of that 25% or 30% did anything on the way through with the gasoline that didn't do anything ?
I'm starting to get some of the "strato" saws in with some issues, but not bearing or scored piston issues, so far anyway.

Like a said earlier, I have a tree service guy that has three of the MS362's that had "strato" carburetors and they have a zillion hours on them. But, he may run 4 to 1 for all I know.

I just have to go what I see.

FOR ABOUT THE FIFTH TIME... when fresh charge enters a two cycle the gasoline part flashes from fine liquid droplets form to vapor. When this happens the oil portion of the charge is deposited on the internal surfaces of the engine. So, anything that makes a two cycle engine burn less fuel also robs it of lubrication.

 

[bwalker]

A long time ago as a young team leading master tech for a GM dealer…

There was an S10 with engine noise. We wanted to replace it, it needed it and usually we had freedom to do it. Our new rep came out to see the truck and introduce himself. He wanted us to pull the oil pan and replace rod bearings. I and others tried to explain that this was a piston knock and bearings wouldn’t fix it. He said put the bearings in it

So I had the bearings put in it and same issue. He then told us to let the customer drive it a bit to see if it improved

This was a nice older man who simply got an unlucky break in his brand new truck. I argued this point and the rep looked me in the eye and said “our job isn’t to get this guy another 36000 miles, it’s to get him TO 36000 miles”.

I and the shop foreman laid a brick on the accelerator in the wash house that evening with the manager’s knowledge. Got a new engine coming soon after.

Rep said “I guess now we know what was wrong”

Manufacturers as a whole are huge and uncaring. In my experience 2 that stand out as very customer concerned are Kubota and Honda.

GM makes about the biggest piles of junk around.

 

[bwalker]

Sorry for that. It has not been my experience.

The older Kubotas although not as nice as a John Deere where stone reliable. The newer emmissions compliant ones are very in reliable.

 

[bwalker]

Sounds like the pulp and paper industry.We have guys coming off the farm starting out more than an engineer going to school for 4 years. I use to cuss engineers daily when I worked on JD tractors. Who in their right mind would design a tractor where you had to remove the cab to replace a fuel tank sending unit! Y’all Be Good and Have a Happy Thanksgiving!

It's like that in a alot of industries. Oil refining, power generation, and mining to name the ones I am expiereanced with.
Keep in mind to get into those industries you can't be a dummy. Exxon-Mobil pre employment test was more difficult than anything I ran into in college.

 

[bwalker]

80’s too they were still using body solder on the joints for the roofs of fox body mustangs too. As a matter of fact chevy trucks and cargo vans from the late 80’s into the 90’s are some sort of galvanized and the paint they used never stuck very well.

As already mentioned galvanized has been in use for decades.
What I was saying is the galvanizing is done at the steel coil plant and not in the auto manufacturing plant. It's a fairly involved process and doing it after partial assembly doesn't make sense from a QC aspect.
All the American auto companies had pain issues in the 80's and 90's. This was due to the switch to emmissions friendly paints mostly.

 

[camel2019]

As already mentioned galvanized has been in use for decades.
What I was saying is the galvanizing is done at the steel coil plant and not in the auto manufacturing plant. It's a fairly involved process and doing it after partial assembly doesn't make sense from a QC aspect.

I can tell you that 90% of the coils I see almost on a daily basis are bare steel. I live in what once was the automotive capital of Canada Windsor Ontario as a matter of fact without what would become Windsor(the city was built around industry mostly woodlands and fields before that) there really wouldn’t be much of an auto industry now.

 

[bwalker]

I can tell you that 90% of the coils I see almost on a daily basis are bare steel. I live in what once was the automotive capital of Canada Windsor Ontario as a matter of fact without what would become Windsor(the city was built around industry mostly woodlands and fields before that) there really wouldn’t be much of an auto industry now.

Bare steel is still used to make things like frames, A-arms, etc.
Bare steal hasn't been used to make body panels for many decades.
I worked in the auto industry right out of college and then latter worked for Cleveland Cliffs Iron in their mining divsion. CCI now supplies most of the steel for the US auto industry.