Pioneer chainsaws

[Bruce Hopf]

Okay You asked for it!
Okay so my plan is to strip this old P20 down, learn all about the different components and if it looks good inside put it back together and see if it will run.This is the saw my neighbor found at the steel dump, there is a little piece of broken magnesium near the end of the handle just cosmetic so I will use this as my first work piece.I would rather start with this one learn the in's and out on it.So the flywheel is off,and I saved the key it is in perfect shape.I have taken out all the screws around the case out.Taken the screws out that are around the points condenser area.The bar chain and cover for the sprocket are off.Two big screws from the plastic carburetor base are out,but the carburetor will not come out of it's little area because the choke knob is holding it in there and maybe something else besides the fuel line.How does that choke knob come off, it's bent around the linkage of the choke.The black plastic choke knob has a wire that comes out of it and that is attached to the for mentioned linkage.After I figure out how to take the carb out will the cylinder come off once the cylinder base bolts are out?It seems pretty tight on there.When can I start to try and split the case in half.Will I need these other pullers to finish the job?Sorry for the jumping around on this, many thoughts are bouncing around in my head, just want to try and accomplish this with out breaking any thing,or twisting things when they should not be twisted.
Thanks For Listening well reading

Before you started tearing down your saw, did you happen to check and see how the spark was? Did you happen to see weather or not if the saw would at least offer to start prior to disassembling the saw? Or are you planning to fix up this Chain Saw, for display?
When I get a used saw in, from other Small Engine Repair Shops, that handle Chain Saws. I first determine weather or not it has good spark. If not I try to put in an Ignition Module in place of the points and condenser. After this, I check to see how good the spark is.If I get good spark, I put some Gas/Mix into the Carburetor Throat, to determine if the saw will at least offer to run, or run, prior to putting in too much time and effort into the saw, and decide to make it a working saw, or parts saw. Bruce.

 

[pioneerguy600]

Okay You asked for it!
Okay so my plan is to strip this old P20 down, learn all about the different components and if it looks good inside put it back together and see if it will run.This is the saw my neighbor found at the steel dump, there is a little piece of broken magnesium near the end of the handle just cosmetic so I will use this as my first work piece.I would rather start with this one learn the in's and out's on it.So the flywheel is off,and I saved the key it is in perfect shape.I have taken out all the screws around the case out.Taken the screws out that are around the points condenser area.The bar chain and cover for the sprocket are off.Two big screws from the plastic carburetor base are out,but the carburetor will not come out of it's little area because the choke knob is holding it in there and maybe something else besides the fuel line.How does that choke knob come off, it's bent around the linkage of the choke.The black plastic choke knob has a wire that comes out of it and that is attached to the for mentioned linkage.After I figure out how to take the carb out will the cylinder come off once the cylinder base bolts are out?It seems pretty tight on there.When can I start to try and split the case in half.Will I need these other pullers to finish the job?Sorry for the jumping around on this, many thoughts are bouncing around in my head, just want to try and accomplish this with out breaking any thing,or twisting things when they should not be twisted.
Thanks For Listening well reading

Ok you are on your way,the wire in the choke pull disconnects from the carb linkage, sometimes a small cotter key is used,:greenchainsaw: yes pull the carb and take out the cylinder retaining machine screws then give the cylinder a little tap with a block of wood and a hammer or a plastic head or similar hammer side on and it will break loose from the base gasket. Make sure all the cross through bolts are out and the cases will be ready to come apart. Do you have IPL`s for the P20 as it will show you all the screws and individual pieces,where they come apart and how they go back together. Its a good idea to practice/learn on an old saw the way you are doing as if you really mess up its no big loss. I personally have not split a P series saw but all the other saws that I have split required some sort of puller that fastened to one side of the case and pulled by pushing on the crank with the puller bolt and this draws the case off the crank bearing. Once one side is off I place blocks of wood in a way that the case with the crank is still in is supported and the crank is not touching anything,then tap the end of the crank with a block of hardwood or protected hammer and the crank and bearing will come out.Some will say to thread the nut from the crank on until flush with the end and it will prevent damage to the crank when you tap on it but I have never damaged a cranks threads as long as you don`t hit it with a steel hammer.
Keep up the teardown,its good practical experience that you can only learn by doing, hands on and keep us posted.
Pioneerguy600

 

[WesternSaw]

Pioneer P20 Teardown

Hi Jerry and Bruce and anybody else reading this.
First .Bruce I dove right in to this saw because it did not cost me a penny, and it is not really suitable for restoration, as it has a small piece of the case missing right near the end of the handle.So I thought I have got to see how this thing looks inside as I have never had a saw apart before.If it is suitable for repair, it will be just for cutting firewood.I have to get my hands dirty to find out how these things work.Jerry I more or less took the saw apart as you described.The carb is out and throttle linkage and choke.The case is split in two, the cylinder is off,the coil is off.I am cleaning dirt and grime off each part as I go . Right now I am in the process of removing the old parts of the gaskets that are stuck on.I see in the cylinder a small amount of scoring on the chrome wall.At the top of the cylinder where the spark plug goes it is quite brown.The top of the piston has some crud on it,I will try and remove it maybe.Are the rings supposed to be tight on the piston,I can turn them around and they seem to have quite a bit of play to them.Bet pictures would help.I'll try and see if I can tonight.
Lawrence

 

[propliner]

P20

Hi Lawrence, just got back from holidays. Good job on the disassembly. I'm wondering if that old fella might have another puller. Could you send a photo of the one you bought?
The cylinders for the P20 series saws are nearly impossible to find new. The pistons are also difficult to find. I've been looking for both for quite some time now.
The rings should come off easily. If you can't feel scoring in the cylinder then it might still be OK. You can try cleaning the chrome bore with muriatic acid to remove any aluminum deposited by the piston.

If you need measurements I can sure help with that.

Brendon.

 

[pioneerguy600]

Hi Jerry and Bruce and anybody else reading this.
First .Bruce I dove right in to this saw because it did not cost me a penny, and it is not really suitable for restoration, as it has a small piece of the case missing right near the end of the handle.So I thought I have got to see how this thing looks inside as I have never had a saw apart before.If it is suitable for repair, it will be just for cutting firewood.I have to get my hands dirty to find out how these things work.Jerry I more or less took the saw apart as you described.The carb is out and throttle linkage and choke.The case is split in two, the cylinder is off,the coil is off.I am cleaning dirt and grime off each part as I go . Right now I am in the process of removing the old parts of the gaskets that are stuck on.I see in the cylinder a small amount of scoring on the chrome wall.At the top of the cylinder where the spark plug goes it is quite brown.The top of the piston has some crud on it,I will try and remove it maybe.Are the rings supposed to be tight on the piston,I can turn them around and they seem to have quite a bit of play to them.Bet pictures would help.I'll try and see if I can tonight.
Lawrence

Good picts would help a lot but the rings need some clearance to be able to move freely in the piston ring grooves. They should not be sloppy however, can you insert a feeler gauge between the piston ring and the groove, this would give some idea of the ring groove clearance,3 to 5 thou would be fine and I have run them with up to 7 thou and they worked alright. A small amount of scoring or scratches is normal for a saw with a lot of hours of run time on it, if they are not deep or too wide spread a little cleanup with 320 grit sandpaper will help the rings seal. You would have to have run a compression test on it before taking it apart to know where it stood on comp. If you decide to put it back together and run it just clean everything up the best you can and you will have learned some valuable experience . Don`t sand the piston or remove any metal from it but try to clean off the carbon from it, I use liquid paint and varnish stripper to remove carbon and a piece of Scotchbrite to give it a little polish. Wash off all parts with hot soapy water and rinse with hot clean water and the parts will be ready to reinstall.
Pioneerguy600

 

[Bruce Hopf]

Hi Jerry and Bruce and anybody else reading this.
First .Bruce I dove right in to this saw because it did not cost me a penny, and it is not really suitable for restoration, as it has a small piece of the case missing right near the end of the handle.So I thought I have got to see how this thing looks inside as I have never had a saw apart before.If it is suitable for repair, it will be just for cutting firewood.I have to get my hands dirty to find out how these things work.Jerry I more or less took the saw apart as you described.The carb is out and throttle linkage and choke.The case is split in two, the cylinder is off,the coil is off.I am cleaning dirt and grime off each part as I go . Right now I am in the process of removing the old parts of the gaskets that are stuck on.I see in the cylinder a small amount of scoring on the chrome wall.At the top of the cylinder where the spark plug goes it is quite brown.The top of the piston has some crud on it,I will try and remove it maybe.Are the rings supposed to be tight on the piston,I can turn them around and they seem to have quite a bit of play to them.Bet pictures would help.I'll try and see if I can tonight.
Lawrence

Lawrence.
You and I are both alike. Sometimes I jump in with Both Feet, and just have to Know What Makes Something Tick, and Sometimes Wonder How I Got There In The First Place, when I get stuck with something. One great thing now, You and I both have the Internet, and Both have Jerry to pick his Brain, to Get Us Out Of Trouble, when we get ourselves in that Predicament. LOL. Bruce.

 

[WesternSaw]

Answers to Pioneerguy600,Propliner,Bruce Hopf ,and anyone else

Bruce,glad you are seeing my view on the saw teardown.Just thought after all the questions it was about time I got my hands dirty,I was eager to see what the inside of that machine looked like.This is my first teardown,and I can see things in the real, instead of pics and words.Kinda neat how that camshaft turns and the piston moves with it,yeah I know is this guy out of it or what.

Jerry and Brendon,Those rings seem so so sloppy, never mind the feeler gauges you could measure it with a yardstick.Brendon you mentioned that the cylinders are hard to come by new ,can you get a cylinder re chromed?Just a thought.It sure does take a lot of phone calls and emails to source things out, but you guy's were right that when you find some thing it makes it worthwhile.That Pioneer puller was a real find I believe.Brendon I will see if he has another puller.I do know that the part number is #471439.,and it worked real slick.It came with two different set sizes of screws to screw into the flywheel.Pictures to come ,yeah right .My wife and I tried to post some today but the upload keeps getting blocked,my kids will try and help me today,I hope.
Lawrence

 

[WesternSaw]

 

[pioneerguy600]

Well there is your p25, you must have figured your way through to get your picts to post, I also use photobucket but I have to upload them from a folder into photobucket one pict at a time. Must be a faster way but it works for now. LOL
Pioneerguy600

 

[WesternSaw]

P25

Jerry
My daughter did the pics for me while I was out today,she will show me how to do it tomorrow or maybe my son. Upcoming pics will include pieces of saws, a 1073 and pictures of that cylinder and piston from the P20.What are your thoughts on getting a cylinder re chromed ?Can this be done?
Also the flywheel puller I purchased.
Lawrence

 

[pioneerguy600]

Jerry
My daughter did the pics for me while I was out today,she will show me how to do it tomorrow or maybe my son. Upcoming pics will include pieces of saws, a 1073 and pictures of that cylinder and piston from the P20.What are your thoughts on getting a cylinder re chromed ?Can this be done?
Also the flywheel puller I purchased.
Lawrence

Yes Lawrence a cylinder can be rechromed and dressed to size but it will cost ya both arms and maybe a leg.There is probably a marine engine rebuilder out on your coast that may take a cylinder on but chainsaws for the most part are blind cylinders with the head integral with the cylinder and they are much more difficult to bore to a specific size but some shops are geared for it and only the cost makes it a little prohibitive. Glad you are making headway on pict posting, my daughter set me up and I can get picts up now without too much hassel, I have no idea how it works but it does. LOL.
Like to see picts of the Pioneer puller and the 1073.
Cheers, Pioneerguy600

 

[WesternSaw]

small p series air filter covers

Hi Jerry,
A while back we talked about the different sizes of air filter covers for the P series and the #1073. I had mentioned that the P25 cover was the same size and dimensions as the #1073. You will see in the following photos that the dimensions are the same.
Lawrence

 

[pioneerguy600]

I see the two covers measure about the same size, will they interchange and hold the filter in place ?
PIONEERGUY600

 

[Bruce Hopf]

I see the two covers measure about the same size, will they interchange and hold the filter in place ?
PIONEERGUY600

Looks pretty close Lawerence. You should turn the both filter covers over, and measure from the bottom of both to the centre of the hold down nut. Bruce.

 

[propliner]

Hi Lawrence, the cylinder can be rechromed for around $150 last time I checked but I don't think many saws would be worth that expense. For a firewood saw like that I'd slap in some new rings and go to town.

That brown 1073 cover will work fine. Take good care of it as they were made of brittle plastic and are hard to come by. It looks like one I sold awhile back and will work with the flat filter.

 

[WesternSaw]

More Pioneer Pictures Later Today

Hello Pioneerguy600,Bruce,Propliner
Thanks for the replies on the saw pictures.I will try and accomplish a few more pictures today.Hopefully they will include my P20 breakdown so far,the Pioneer puller and the #1073 as well as some new Pioneer cases.Would like you Gurus to look at the scoring of the cylinder wall as well.I have been taking each part off that i can and cleaning as I go.I do not have an air compressor yet, it is on my wish list.I can see how on would come in handy for cleaning out those little crevices you encounter.I was using dental picks and little plastic doodads for the crack's
Hey where did all the other Pioneer guy's go! Come on back and contribute
Lawrence

 

[pioneerguy600]

Hello Pioneerguy600,Bruce,Propliner
Thanks for the replies on the saw pictures.I will try and accomplish a few more pictures today.Hopefully they will include my P20 breakdown so far,the Pioneer puller and the #1073 as well as some new Pioneer cases.Would like you Gurus to look at the scoring of the cylinder wall as well.I have been taking each part off that i can and cleaning as I go.I do not have an air compressor yet, it is on my wish list.I can see how on would come in handy for cleaning out those little crevices you encounter.I was using dental picks and little plastic doodads for the crack's
Hey where did all the other Pioneer guy's go! Come on back and contribute
Lawrence

Just a couple of Diehards holdin the fort, the others must be busy or have a life. LOL
Pioneerguy600 opcorn: opcorn: opcorn: opcorn:

 

[Bruce Hopf]

Hello Pioneerguy600,Bruce,Propliner
Thanks for the replies on the saw pictures.I will try and accomplish a few more pictures today.Hopefully they will include my P20 breakdown so far,the Pioneer puller and the #1073 as well as some new Pioneer cases.Would like you Gurus to look at the scoring of the cylinder wall as well.I have been taking each part off that i can and cleaning as I go.I do not have an air compressor yet, it is on my wish list.I can see how on would come in handy for cleaning out those little crevices you encounter.I was using dental picks and little plastic doodads for the crack's
Hey where did all the other Pioneer guy's go! Come on back and contribute
Lawrence

Well it's very, very, odvious that I'm hanging out in the Wrong Thread of AS. I should be in the McCulloch Thread instead. All I have are Yeller and Black stuff. LOL. Try using a small fine bristled paint brush and Varsol, to clean your saw parts. My Great Uncle was a General Mechanic in his own shop for years, and always wash all the parts this way. He never had an air compressor. Bruce.

 

[gmax]

Hi guys, Great thread about the Pioneers, i bought my first Pioneer chainsaw last week, i was lucky their pretty rare in Australia.
Its almost 100% complete just missing the air filter and the original fuel primer.
It should like nice repainted with the bar polished.

 

[WesternSaw]

3270

Hi gmax
That's a nice looking 3270.Do you plan on restoring it? are parts really hard to come by down there?You mentioned that the saws are, so I guess parts are scarce as well.
gday mate