Some sawing, logging and skidding pics and videos ......

[Slamm]

Great stuff again Sam and thanks for taking the time keep it coming.
All this with a stock 441RCMTronic and 28'' bar i wonder if it will catch on,I'm thinking every day is a pleasure with that combination.

I truly love this saw just in stock form. If I had started logging with it, I would have no thought of why someone would modd a saw. It doesn't have the higher horsepower that say my modded 441's have, but it has more grunt at the lower rpms or better stated it gets really pissed off and tries its hardest to not bog down. Its like it gets mad or something, and that something is the advancing of the timing (I'd suspect). Menno is going to start cutting in the next few days, so he's going to get this saw and I'm going to run the other new one but I'm going to put the Modded Muffler on it right away (At this point I haven't started it yet).

I haven't calibrated this stock saw that I've been runnning. It seems to run a little leaner than my other one, but I wanted to run it a little so I could get a baseline in my head and then calibrate it. I might do that tomorrow. I have 8.? hours on it, but the wire was loose for the last half of the day so I don't know how many hours didn't get recorded, maybe just 1-2. Who knew that tape wouldn't last on a saw in logging use, LOL. I almost smashed the saw today in the morning. Had a little 18"er, go sideways from where I wanted it to go and I pulled until the whole tree spun a little and a corner caught and lifted the tree off of the Lite bar, I bent that Lite bar into a C and it just popped right back. Menno saw the whole thing, the tree was at a 45 degree angle over my back, coming down, but it all worked out alright, was topping it seconds later, never even turned the saw off. It was just one of those morning that you have to work through, LOL.

Back to the Lite bar, I have abused this bar so bad with all of the limbing we have to do on these big pasture trees that its sick, and there isn't anything wrong with it. The skidder even hit it and bent it over quite a ways and it just went back straight, I honestly think they straighten themselves out better than a regular ES bar.

Its hard for me to get a feel for the fuel useage, because one tree is 18"es and the next one I can barely reach with a 28" bar on both sides. I need to go to gallons per running hour, but I just don't have time to record anything. Menno is breathing down my back with the the skidder, and can barely get any photos taken. My kids like the photos and videos of what I do.

I'm interested in what the Muffler Modd does for it, and then I'm going to get a bunch of 100 LL AV gas and see what that does. The saw has been going around these oaks at about 10,200-11,000 rpms with a good load and chips are flying out, chain filed to FOP standards with a little downward pressure. With Hickory and duller chain it was going around them at 9,600 give or take, with the bar buried, and I'm usually always dawged in, with even pressure, the saw rarely bogs to a stop due to miss handling or heavy hands, I'd say its on par with a stock 660 in available torque for face cuts and starting cuts, it just doesn't want to bog down, sharp or dull semi chisel it just keeps pulling.

I wish I could get some time to port one. I'd like to make one like the 441 that Menno's older brother has, I think that is about the fastest one that Terry did, he opened some things up on it, but as you have seen its not even high compression, he just knew how to get air through an engine. I know that the owner Mervin who has run all of mine and Bert who has one and just sold it for a good profit and will get another one, they think that Mervins is the fastest, and I don't doubt it. Menno cut a lot of firewood with his brothers saw and then came down here and run my Painted saw which is a good runner, and he thinks that Mervins will spank it. Mervin said I could have it for a few weeks and check the numbers on it, but make an Mtronic version, I know what Terry did to make it run richer like yours so we'll see, but I just don't have the time now.

Ran the little 261 cutting myself out of a few pinches and limbing a little. Its a good little saw, its not broke in and I've got it too rich today and didn't feel like messing with it. I'm all for the Mtronic version of that model to come out, LOL.

Later,

Sam

 

[Slamm]

This would have been a good one to use a swing-dutchman on!

I use those a fair bit, but this one was leaning too hard into the creek and it was limb locked with that black oak on the right side. I knew it was goin to be a problem so I shoved that sycamore into it, as I was cutting up the creek, because I 80% knew that the little sycamore wasn't going to go through the white oaks crown and then I would use it to push the white oak, as you can see in the first video, it didn't even budge that white oak. I really didn't want that white oak in the creek, because then I have to clean it up, that would take 1/2 hour or better, so I just used that big yellow "wedge" that is 4wheel drive, LOL.

Sam

 

[Stihlman441]

Thanks Sam all sounds good, i will be in contact soon.

 

[Slamm]

Well here is the #2 Mtronic it started life with a modded muffler and ran for about 1.+ hours today and cut 15 trees this afternoon, before I ripped the drivers off of about 6 links and went out of the woods to help buck up and stack logs.
Here is a photo of the hour meter when it only have .1 hours on it and had only run for .1 hr at the shop.

I cut a little bigger soft maple with it for its first tree and this white oak was its second tree.

Did I mention that some of the stumps get cut low to the ground? This is its second white oak.

There are 4 trees in this mess. I'm standing on a dozer pile up against the edge of the pasture, and I dropped several out this way, then some extra's fell off of that bashed big one.

Here is a big gum tree. The thing is super tall.

I got in a shorter version of my longer Fiskar's Chopping Axe and it is a winner, I love that thing.

I put the modded muffler that I made in the machine shop and it has a large hole in it, equal to the exhaust port size or bigger. I started the saw at the shop and let it run for a little while .1 hr, messing with the tach wire location. Then drove to the job site and went to the woods, I got off the ATV and started walking to the first tree and didn't like how it was idling and sometimes it would die when I throttled it. So I just yanked the bar off and let it sit in the leaves for one minute doing the calibration thing and put the bar on and went to cutting. It ran great. The muffler modd gives it about 500-1000 more rpm's this saw on its first tank was cutting more in the 11,000 rpm range or higher than the Mtronic with the stock muffler, the midrange torque is just amazing. In 15 trees I might have bogged the saw maybe 3 times, which is better than the stock muffler, which is better than my modded, regular 441's. The modded, regular 441's seem to be able to hold higher rpms in the cut do to portwork, but don't have the lower range that makes these stock or muffler modded Mtronic saws so easy to love to use. I can't emphasize enough, if you gave me a 660, I would ask that you just sell it for me and give me a wrapped 441 Mtronic and you keep the several hundred dollars in change, they are that amazing. John was running his modded 441' Mtronic today, and he said it was in the 12,000rpm range and that seems about right.

Here is my take on it, 28" bar in hardwoods, in the cut rpms:
So stock form is about 10,000+ with stock muffler.
Stock with Muffler Modd 10,500-11,000+ with duh, modded muffler (and that is a first few tanks, so its not broken in yet).
Modded/ported 441 Mtronic 12,000

Here was some of it about 40 of the 200 trees worth.

Later,

Sam

 

[Stihlman441]

Thank you Sam for your report,would you say the muff modded one runs rich enough ?.

 

[Slamm]

Thank you Sam for your report,would you say the muff modded one runs rich enough ?.

Oh yes, it snaps, crackles and pops in the cut if you are just standing on the powerhead and then it sometimes manages to get some growling in. It truly is the most fun saw I have ever "worked with". It starts (pulls) about as easy as the 261, LOL, and when you have to start and stop and start and stop a saw as much as we do in a day that means a lot, it could be 40-100 times per day. I have fought hopped up 460's and 660's and wow, they are a workout just getting them started when you add up all the effort just in that portion of the job each day, these 441 CM's feel like you are pulling the rope just to say that you did, LOL.

Sam

 

[Slamm]

Bringing one around, and making it fall where it doesn't really want to go.

The scrench is pointing where it really wanted to go. The end of the file is where I undercut it to get the tree to start to swing around. Once you get them heading around you can really set them anywhere you want them to go.

This below stump shows how you can very quickly cut a tree down without ever "bore cutting", yet you can still have the "safety" of some holding wood in the back for a more controlled release time. I usually cut this way, with one handed "dawged in" cuts, and taking a knee to rest before the limbing and topping starts.

The blue file is the represents the chainsaw, and shows where I "swing" cut it through most of the way.

This shows the final cutting of that 1st swing through to the make the hinge.

This shows the saw in its almost final position for the 2nd swing through, while also gutting out the center of the hinge at the same time. When you get to really know where your tip is, it isn't uncommon for me to make the hinge with the tip while I'm standing on the back side of the tree.

Billy skidding a tree to the landing.

Some stump, where Menno and I took a break for lunch.

 

[Slamm]

Here is some of the excavator work. He would pull down the limbs, but this is a tree we wanted to cut, so now I am cutting it and watching above. It went over just fine.

Just some springpole. Here I'm showing where to cut it to releave the pressure. I then went back and finished it and flush cut it so the skidder won't hit it and it makes the woods look a lot better afterwards.

Here Menno hung this tree up about 20' in the air and limb locked it in another tree. The skidder couldn't pull it out but the butt, so I climbed up the trunk and made this "hinge" cut so that the skidder can break it free, but it is still strong enough for me to be standing up there. The scrench shows the direction of the cable pull. This photo is straight down at the top, which is about 20' in the air. I put this in here in case someone is ever in this situation and doesn't know how to get it down without completely cutting it.

Here is Menno finishing off some tree that I started, as he was fueling up and I was waiting for him, so I just bore cut it and left some holding wood and he's going to drop it and top it and we will march along the hillside.


Later,

Sam

 

[Stihlman441]

Thanks for the felling tips,interesting.:msp_smile:

 

[Slamm]

Well its coming together to get the wood down the road.

This morning, the sun was coming up as I waited for the trucks to come get the first loads of grade red oak, white oak and hickory.

Trucks arrived a little later.

Getting loaded.

Loading good logs.

Well and then there is the tie and blocking logs. This is the 3rd load.

Then I went over to Menno and we started burying the skidder in logs. Here is whats left of the heart of a nice red oak. I buried my boot in chips.

Here is my logging dog, he knows where to be when the trees start to fall. He's pretty good at keeping track of whats going on. He would check on me and Menno throughout the day and follow the skidder around.

 

[Slamm]

Rachet takes a look at the hot topping action that is about to occur. Trees like this just suck, but we are getting a lot of them on this job, over mature trees in scrub brush and around pastures. They have footage in them though.

Overseer of the cutting operation.

Yeah, do you see the log chain that has grown into the tree trunk and one of the twins.

Stump action.

More Stump action.

4th Tie and blocking load.

The boys just got in from skidding in the dark and fueling up everything and greasing the skidder and skid steer, its suppose to rain tomorrow, so we might just go cut or install hardwood floor ...... not sure yet.

Later,

Sam

 

[Stihlman441]

So in the end is it werth doing the muff mod on a stock 441C or are you still going to be better of with a ported one ?.:msp_smile:

 

[Slamm]

I can tell you that a muffler modded 441cm is more of what I'm looking at, using. Last two days, I have let Menno use the muffler modded one and I have been using the stock, and if he leaves it sit for a second, I go steal it back, LOL, and its not just because its very loud, it is a good percent more powerful or bog proof, and holds 500-1000 rpms higher with the 28" bar buried in oak gettinng pulled on. The more power is nice for rough handling and keeps the chain spinning through big loads of chips.

As to the ported one, I would rather use this muffler modded 441 CM than my ported regular 441's, but I haven't run a modded 441 CM, so I will possibly remedy that problem in the next couple of months, but not sure its worth $300, but might be.

I know that the muffler modded 441 CM is way, way more saw than 98% of the people on this site will ever need, it blows a 660 out of the water for cutting production and weight and handling and filtration and fuel mileage and easy starting and its hundreds cheaper. Whats not to like?

Sam

 

[Stihlman441]

Thanks Sam,what i am trying to work out is if a stock muff modded 441C with a 20'' bar going to be good enough for me to use blocking Ozzy hard woods.I normally use a stock 460 which is just enough when comes to power,torque but as we know the 441Cs advantages sh_t all over the old school saws.

 

[Slamm]

Thanks Sam,what i am trying to work out is if a stock muff modded 441C with a 20'' bar going to be good enough for me to use blocking Ozzy hard woods.I normally use a stock 460 which is just enough when comes to power,torque but as we know the 441Cs advantages sh_t all over the old school saws.

Andrew, sorry I didn't see your post until now when uploading some pics of work. My thoughts are yes, more power through proper porting is always a nice bonus, I just don't or wouldn't think you will see a major increase in, "in the cut" rpms to justify the cost of the porting, certainly not for a 20" bar.

Soon you will know yourself, as you have a well ported 441 CM, but a muffler modded 441 CM is a heck of a nice saw, as is. We are using ours with a 20" bar for bucking and 28" bar for felling and it just simply rips wood apart. If proper porting would make it more powerful that would be a good thing, is it worth several hundred dollars extra to me to have done .................. uh, well, this is the first saw that has me stalling on that answer, and I'm a big, big advocate for proper porting kinda person. I think the average guy that uses 28" bar or less in typical North American Hardwoods is going to have, to have CAD to justify it, I'm not completely satisfied that from either a warranty or headache and extra money point of view that its worth it. That is just based on in the cut rpms.

John says he's running in the 12K range and some higher with his ported 441 CM in oak, I'm in the 11+K range with a Muffler Modded 441 CM with the 28" dawged in and bar buried in 50" oaks. I think, in my profession I can justify the portwork, for that extra power, as it will pay for itself, that I'm sure of, but I don't see the average Joe, noticing the power much over the simple Muffler Modd and Re-Calibration, and if all they have on the saw is a 20" to 25" bar, the margin gets pretty small.

I want to run my stock and muffler modded 441 CM's for a while and get a feel for them and then port them and see what performance and economic benefits are to be had.

Sam

 

[Stihlman441]

Thanks Sam and i hear what you are saying but im all still worried even with a muff modd how it will go in some of owh stupidly hard wood,did you see that vid i did the other day Oak and then Yellowbox thats what im talking about.:rolleyes2:

 

[Slamm]

Been to busy running around keeping trucks sorted out and guys cutting and skidding and remodeling the house to get much photo work done. That said, its been a pretty smooth job, its just down the road from the house, so that has been real nice and quite the pleasure. All indications are that this local job will turn into a few more around here, and I still have the bottom ground jobs up in Illinois to do. This is a good three hour drive difference in weather that at times means if we can't work down here, we can up there, as the weather patterns are different enough to provide some benefit in that aspect of things.

From a cutting/felling point of view its been keeping me and Menno on our toes, I think we have cut 5 different days in 20-35 mile and hour winds and it appears we will be doing it again today. Lets just say, you learn to time your gusts of winds, LOL. From a safety point of view there are some inherent risks with cutting in high winds, but from a production point of view the wind is just another great asset in a toolbag of tricks. We have several different areas where based on wind direction, we used the wind to our advantage to get the trees to go down in the direction we wanted for improved skidding efficiency and it sure beats smacking wedges. So we would or have been purposely cutting in those locations during the high winds and it is sure easier cutting. This western Kentucy timber has been extremely damaged by that ice storm and hurricane Ike 3ish years ago, that being said, I have always figured that 1 in 50 trees was trying to kill me back. This broken topped and dangling branch stuff seems to have cut that ratio in about half give or take, as there sure is a lot more stuff up there that seems to want to fall onto my head, LOL.

Just some trees that are cut down.

This is the 3rd staging area or landing. These piles represent 176 trees cut, there are a few truck loads already gone, but it gives an idea. They are sorted into tie/blocking, grade (white oak, red oak and Hickory) and Veneer White Oak. There are a few piles of culls logs and chunks that I'm just going to load into the dump trailer and take home for firewood cutting.

Just some photos of the truck leaving with logs.

Sam

 

[Slamm]

Thanks Sam and i hear what you are saying but im all still worried even with a muff modd how it will go in some of owh stupidly hard wood,did you see that vid i did the other day Oak and then Yellowbox thats what im talking about.:rolleyes2:

Yeah, I saw that video, and all I can say is, I'm glad I don't log in Australia, LOL. I would quit, LOL.

I hate hickory and its not that hard, I think its getting pretty close, but that Yellowbox crap you have in that video was pure hell. If I had to buck that crap up all day, I'd bring a portable DVD player to set up at each cut, as radio earmuffs wouldn't cut it, LOL.

That all said, I think with your choice of 20" bars for the new 441 CM's and a large hole in the muffler and you should be somewhere in that 460 range, as I can't remember how your modded 441 CM did against that 460 you showed. I know our hickory with a 20" bar is not a problem for it, certainly not to the point that I'm wishing I had a different saw in my hands.

Sam

 

[logger 12345]

i was reading the thread and must say well done on the work,it looks like a nice set up you have and reminds me of myself with my wife as we do all our timber work together too.where i am working now i need to clear a way in to a large woodland,so in time i will be falling the large trees too and taking some machinery also then when needed.

somewhere in the thread i got lost in a lot of strange arguing,maybe just ignore some of it would be the only advice because it would be a shame to see a nice thread going to waste.

my motto is,if you cut safe,get the work done,make some money and the land owner is happy then that's all that really matters,sometimes when i'm cutting trees i try differnt methods and ways which i feel may assist me doing a cut,because at the end
of the day no tree is the same and more often than not you have to use differnt cuts on every tree,if it's working don't change it.

dan

 

[802climber]

Finally got together some crappy phone pics of what i've been doing lately. Never seem to be able to get pictures of the best climbing/cutting/stump action.

Pics are of:
Cheesehead country - where the landing is bigger than the woods
Some big hard maple plus mud and manure
Lunchtime stump complete with kicked chain
Big cottonwood takedown I did in the fall