Stihl quality headed downhill bad

[mountainlake]

Last week I was out on a portable sawmill job and the customer had a 1 year old MS391 that the bearings crapped out on him, most likely cheap china bearings

Today on another job the customer had a not to old MS362 that's on the 4th coil now, most likely a auto tune that sounded blow up lean to me, this customer was really impressed how fast my 45cc Echo cut(it does have a sharp chain ) Stihl are you listing?? Steve

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

I haven't messed with any of the "bubble" saws. I'll stick to the earlier models... 460, 360, 260, etc.

 

[Big_Wood]

stihl lost alot of sales with the 661. firewood hacks who burn a few tanks a year seem to love them. fallers here are having nothing but problem after problem with them burning 8-9 tanks a day. few guys switched to 461's or had some old 660's rebuilt but most of them switched to husky. last camp i was in had 17 fallers come and go and only one of those guys ran stihl lol. i was actually very surprised as i was expecting 50/50 split. years of decent reliable saws to build a good rep and one ****** one to throw it all away!

 

[Andyshine77]

Strato engine + lean tuning + bad fuel/oil + poor operators all adds up to the failures we see today. Add in the fact all power equipment manufacturers fell so far behind in technology, the leading curve for them is steep. Then we add in the bean counters and things get even worse.

 

[Conquistador3]

A one year saw throwing a bearing? That goes straight back to the dealership to be fixed under warranty. No "if" and "but". Unless of course the bearing failure is not really a bearing failure but something more mundane, like straight gassing.

Strato engine + lean tuning + bad fuel/oil + poor operators all adds up to the failures we see today. Add in the fact all power equipment manufacturers fell so far behind in technology, the leading curve for them is steep. Then we add in the bean counters and things get even worse.

And that's in my opinion the main reason Honda is interested in two stroke engines again. With all their accumulated know how and R&D capabilities they can blow pretty much everybody else out of the water if they so wish. Honda is the largest Otto-cycle engine manufacturer in the world and small engines and power equipment account for 16% of their revenue, more than motorcycles. That's a big pie out there.
I have nothing but good things to say about their GX engines, even the small units used in brush cutters and the like. Even the homeowner-grade GCV's and GP's aren't bad at all.
Should Honda decide to build a two stroke chainsaw engine I am sure we'll all be more than pleasantly surprised.

 

[mountainlake]

To me these auto tune saws are set borderline lean thanks to the EPA and there's nothing you can do about it. As Andy said the bean counters are lowering the quality to make money right now, why worry about the future when they'll be on a fat pension for making the company money right now while ruining a good name. Steve

 

[superw6]

Don't think Husqvarna is much better as the crank bearing is binding up in my 576 XPG auto tune right now. Still has the original 24" bar on it[emoji35]. Just replaced bearings for a friends 562 XPG couple of months ago. Thought his was amsoil and abuse but mine is babied and gets synthetic oil at 40:1 out of the dirt bike gas[emoji853]. I remember many wore out bars hanging from dads 288 before it gave up its bearings [emoji3]. Honda had its share of bad two stroke engines [emoji849]


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[redtractor]

Should Honda decide to build a two stroke chainsaw engine I am sure we'll all be more than pleasantly surprised.

I can't see Honda putting out just any other old chainsaw. Seems the way they got so big is by being a leader, not doing the some old thing. Their very small four stroke is one of the few that are worth anything or I'd bet they're playing with direct injection behind closed doors.

 

[Conquistador3]

I can't see Honda putting out just any other old chainsaw. Seems the way they got so big is by being a leader, not doing the some old thing. Their very small four stroke is one of the few that are worth anything or I'd bet they're playing with direct injection behind closed doors.

They don't need building the chainsaws themselves. They just need building the engines. Plenty of other brand brush cutters here run on Honda GX35's, far outnumbering the UMK's built by Honda. It's very profitable business for Honda. I am sure plenty of manufacturers would gladly just pay for the engines instead of designing their own.
And you would be right about DI: Honda had been playing with it for years, just in case. Right now it seems they are more concerned with small generator engines (big business for them) but once the technology is out there, they'll surely find a way to squeeze it somewhere else.
Regarding those small four stroke engines... my uncle has a Honda brushcutter with the old GX31. It was built in 1998. Apart from ordinary maintenance and a broken starter after over a deacde of service, it has never lost a beat. It always starts at second pull from cold and has the guts of still not using any oil... and it sounds not unlike one of their four stroke dirt bikes!

 

[a. palmer jr.]

I doubt if even a Honda engine will stand up to straight gassing...As far as EPA and not being able to do anything about it, I dunno. Looks like we can modify the saws to run a little richer if we put our heads into the problem.

 

[Franny K]

It started out Stihl quality but has drifted into Honda is great. I have a 35cc four cycle engine honda on a trimmer/brushcutter/pole saw/hedge clipper and evaluate their product quite lacking. I do not know the letters it is designated by, the valve keeper is real crude and one came off and there is a part inside the cam gear that lifts a valve a bit until the revs go up and that fell out fortunately on starting, jammed to the point the cam timing skipped perhaps 20 degrees. It was just crude peening of the part that went through the cam gear and pivot point that held it on. Not everyone has great experience with these Honda small four cycle engines. It is nice to use except for the balance in a rotational view. Probably not too important if it had bike handles. For all the balance of chainsaw lovers the first four cycle chainsaws might be an area that gets complaints. Where is the Honda has more revenue from small engine stuff than motorcycles. Are their racing and advertising budgets coming off income before revenue? How is the Jet plane division doing, I thought they were heading that way.

 

[Andyshine77]

To me these auto tune saws are set borderline lean thanks to the EPA and there's nothing you can do about it. As Andy said the bean counters are lowering the quality to make money right now, why worry about the future when they'll be on a fat pension for making the company money right now while ruining a good name. Steve

Exactly.

bearing failures IMHO are going to be more common on strato saws, simply not enough oil getting to the bottom end.

 

[Bwildered]

Exactly.

bearing failures IMHO are going to be more common on strato saws, simply not enough oil getting to the bottom end.

The machinery destroyers are 3 steps ahead of the best technology known to man in their ability to ruin something in ways unimaginable to a normal operator. If only we knew the secrets to their trade, or maybe not!
Thanski

 

[bikemike]

Last week I was out on a portable sawmill job and the customer had a 1 year old MS391 that the bearings crapped out on him, most likely cheap china bearings

Today on another job the customer had a not to old MS362 that's on the 4th coil now, most likely a auto tune that sounded blow up lean to me, this customer was really impressed how fast my 45cc Echo cut(it does have a sharp chain ) Stihl are you listing?? Steve

I can't always say Chinese bearings are bad. Yes they have some cheeper built or false label bearings but they also have some of the nicer quality bearings too.

I do believe that when ppl are milling they are also using 50.1 mix on a machine that is who till the job is done. Me I run 40.1 at the minimum on any saw I own cause plugs and screens are cheeper than engines. Any brand of saw out there is going to have a sour apple especially with new technology being tested and working out the bugs. Husqvarna auto tune had issues for a while now very few of them are having the issue they originally had in the past. But many husky saws are also having big end bearings go out, cages tore up balls burnt black. Lube or tune when 50.1 is supposedly recommended. Are you a Ford fan? If so all the bearings in ur truck are made in vachina. How long has ur truck lasted?

 

[Big_Wood]

A one year saw throwing a bearing? That goes straight back to the dealership to be fixed under warranty. No "if" and "but". Unless of course the bearing failure is not really a bearing failure but something more mundane, like straight gassing.



And that's in my opinion the main reason Honda is interested in two stroke engines again. With all their accumulated know how and R&D capabilities they can blow pretty much everybody else out of the water if they so wish. Honda is the largest Otto-cycle engine manufacturer in the world and small engines and power equipment account for 16% of their revenue, more than motorcycles. That's a big pie out there.
I have nothing but good things to say about their GX engines, even the small units used in brush cutters and the like. Even the homeowner-grade GCV's and GP's aren't bad at all.
Should Honda decide to build a two stroke chainsaw engine I am sure we'll all be more than pleasantly surprised.

I know one guy with 3 661's all with blown big ends and they didn't even last the year lol. Commercial warranty is also only 2 months so he was SOL. He's switched back to 660's now. I just hope not all new saws turn out this way. Hoping for a reliable 590xp kinda saw [emoji41]

 

[Rockjock]

I know one guy with 3 661's all with blown big ends and they didn't even last the year lol. Commercial warranty is also only 2 months so he was SOL. He's switched back to 660's now. I just hope not all new saws turn out this way. Hoping for a reliable 590xp kinda saw [emoji41]

I trust he sent the saws back to stihl so they could figure out what went wrong. I mean 3 saws!

As a dealer if that ever happened to us we would be on the phone straight away with stihl and they would gladly take the saws back and figure out why they blew up. It maybe a case of operator error but to do in 3 saws..

 

[steve easy]

661's are a joke. They are recalled here cant get them, not that i would ever want one again. Husqvarna are laughing all the way to the bank so many are changing colours they have sold out of 395's.

 

[Big_Wood]

I trust he sent the saws back to stihl so they could figure out what went wrong. I mean 3 saws!

As a dealer if that ever happened to us we would be on the phone straight away with stihl and they would gladly take the saws back and figure out why they blew up. It maybe a case of operator error but to do in 3 saws..

i can't be certain what he did but they were in a pile in camp lol. i can't even verify it was in fact the issue. he just told me the connecting rod bearing went in all 3 of them and that he will never buy another one. i have no reason to not believe him. i did turn one over and it sounded pretty clanky. i heard that stihl started using a plastic cage bearing for the big end in the 661? i never had one apart yet so can't be sure but would be nice to know the for sure answer of that as i don't take any fallers word for nothing. most of them don't know their ass from their head when it comes to saws. why else would he not be running them? i was the grunt in that camp and had to do the fuel so i know they were running 40:1 castrol super 2 stroke while i was there. can't be certain what other grunts mixed. i heard stories in that camp of some brand new saws getting roached on the first day because of guys not knowing how to mix. stihl know there problem i think, they saw money saving opportunities in the stout 660 cranks and started building the 661 cranks weaker lol

 

[Conquistador3]

I know one guy with 3 661's all with blown big ends and they didn't even last the year lol. Commercial warranty is also only 2 months so he was SOL. He's switched back to 660's now. I just hope not all new saws turn out this way. Hoping for a reliable 590xp kinda saw [emoji41]

Only two months? Was that rental? At least here Stihl has a one year "professional" warranty, if they don't try getting out of it by claiming you didn't use their oil (yes, they try that all the time).

 

[Big_Wood]

Only two months? Was that rental? At least here Stihl has a one year "professional" warranty, if they don't try getting out of it by claiming you didn't use their oil (yes, they try that all the time).

production falling saw. by 2 months it would already have around 350 tanks through it. i believe they only give 2 months or 3 maybe. can't remember as i don't care for warranty anyways. they almost always make it through the warranty. if it's a year professional use now i am not aware of that change and likely he isn't either.