dolmar commercial warranty is 2 years.
The Stihl 362 disappointment
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shootingarts
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Organization, responsibility, personal pride.
I pushed crews of my own and other people's for over fifteen years. In that time I had a handful of workers that cared as much about doing things right as I did. You already have tons of good advice, I'm going to try to put some of it in the same place and add a little management that might or might not be possible in your situation.
First off, premium fuel, synthetic oil, precisely mixed by you or one man. Don't even have raw gas and mix oil available to the crews. I have been guilty of the "if a little is good more is better theory" myself. When I am precisely measuring things now I realize how far off some of my old mix often was.
If at all possible pair up one man with one piece of equipment, saw or whatever it is. If you can't do that still try to limit who uses what instead of everyone grabbing whatever. Make a practice of inspecting all equipment once a week, an obvious practice! People will take better care of things when they know you notice.
I would post a list of protocols for proper maintenance of the saws and make everyone read and sign a copy to put on file. I would buy the M-tronic type ignition on every new saw too, a little more "fudge factor" like premium quality gas and oil.
Few if any of your men are going to take as much interest in taking care of the saws as you have already shown. You will have to do a small amount of training and also make plain that taking care of the saws as instructed is a condition of employment. One very cold morning I gathered my crew and told them very carefully and several times be sure to let every engine they started that morning run at idle for five to ten minutes until gauges were in the normal range. Five minutes later I hear an engine revving like hell! I go out in the yard and a man is revving mightily on the engine of my most important truck. Joe had been with me two years, was overall a good employee, and I liked him. He was gone as fast as I could figure time and cut a field check.
You can learn how to take care of the saws and get far better life out of them. Doesn't mean a thing if that knowledge isn't applied.
Your air filter protocol sounds shaky. Do have the heavy duty filter systems installed on the saws if they aren't there already and you probably want a policy of changing out filters before start of work and at noon. Detail somebody to inspect and clean the filters and reuse them over and over but "tapping out" a filter can be done thoroughly, half heartedly, or not at all in the field. Buy your fuel filters bulk and put a rotation or replacement policy in place for those. Likewise plugs. Chains need to be inspected regularly also to be sure your guys aren't getting lazy and running dull chains. I would set up a maintenance schedule to swap out spark plugs too, even if it was just to inspect them and put them back in the saw at the next rotation.
Seems like a lot to do but in reality all this takes very little time and fosters a new attitude on the job. Right now the saws are a tool, not equipment, and are getting about as much care and attention as a hammer or end wrench. To get decent service out of saws takes a little more effort. One thing, plugs like at least two of those in the picture and the conditions causing them are costing time in the cut. Taking better care of the saws will be offset to some degree by man hours saved. I don't know how it will fall but you may more than pay for time and money spent taking care of the saws by increased production on the job.
You should be able to have a saw looked over and whatever work needed done at six months and pretty easily get a year out of a saw. Sell it at a year old for a decent price and get a new one. Do have a mechanic tune the saw after it is broken in.
More than abuse or operator error I would suspect that simple neglect and being a little too casual about mixing oil and fuel are the big causes of poor saw life. When I bought a running business there was an atmosphere of neglect and not caring about the equipment. The mechanic was used to changing truck clutches every six weeks. Once I took over the clutches lasted for years.
Hu
I pushed crews of my own and other people's for over fifteen years. In that time I had a handful of workers that cared as much about doing things right as I did. You already have tons of good advice, I'm going to try to put some of it in the same place and add a little management that might or might not be possible in your situation.
First off, premium fuel, synthetic oil, precisely mixed by you or one man. Don't even have raw gas and mix oil available to the crews. I have been guilty of the "if a little is good more is better theory" myself. When I am precisely measuring things now I realize how far off some of my old mix often was.
If at all possible pair up one man with one piece of equipment, saw or whatever it is. If you can't do that still try to limit who uses what instead of everyone grabbing whatever. Make a practice of inspecting all equipment once a week, an obvious practice! People will take better care of things when they know you notice.
I would post a list of protocols for proper maintenance of the saws and make everyone read and sign a copy to put on file. I would buy the M-tronic type ignition on every new saw too, a little more "fudge factor" like premium quality gas and oil.
Few if any of your men are going to take as much interest in taking care of the saws as you have already shown. You will have to do a small amount of training and also make plain that taking care of the saws as instructed is a condition of employment. One very cold morning I gathered my crew and told them very carefully and several times be sure to let every engine they started that morning run at idle for five to ten minutes until gauges were in the normal range. Five minutes later I hear an engine revving like hell! I go out in the yard and a man is revving mightily on the engine of my most important truck. Joe had been with me two years, was overall a good employee, and I liked him. He was gone as fast as I could figure time and cut a field check.
You can learn how to take care of the saws and get far better life out of them. Doesn't mean a thing if that knowledge isn't applied.
Your air filter protocol sounds shaky. Do have the heavy duty filter systems installed on the saws if they aren't there already and you probably want a policy of changing out filters before start of work and at noon. Detail somebody to inspect and clean the filters and reuse them over and over but "tapping out" a filter can be done thoroughly, half heartedly, or not at all in the field. Buy your fuel filters bulk and put a rotation or replacement policy in place for those. Likewise plugs. Chains need to be inspected regularly also to be sure your guys aren't getting lazy and running dull chains. I would set up a maintenance schedule to swap out spark plugs too, even if it was just to inspect them and put them back in the saw at the next rotation.
Seems like a lot to do but in reality all this takes very little time and fosters a new attitude on the job. Right now the saws are a tool, not equipment, and are getting about as much care and attention as a hammer or end wrench. To get decent service out of saws takes a little more effort. One thing, plugs like at least two of those in the picture and the conditions causing them are costing time in the cut. Taking better care of the saws will be offset to some degree by man hours saved. I don't know how it will fall but you may more than pay for time and money spent taking care of the saws by increased production on the job.
You should be able to have a saw looked over and whatever work needed done at six months and pretty easily get a year out of a saw. Sell it at a year old for a decent price and get a new one. Do have a mechanic tune the saw after it is broken in.
More than abuse or operator error I would suspect that simple neglect and being a little too casual about mixing oil and fuel are the big causes of poor saw life. When I bought a running business there was an atmosphere of neglect and not caring about the equipment. The mechanic was used to changing truck clutches every six weeks. Once I took over the clutches lasted for years.
Hu
windthrown
361 Junkie
Pro saws are designed to go for 2,000 hours. Typical hard run falling saws rarely run for more than a year or 1,000 hours. I have bought several well taken care of falling saws with over 1,000 hours on them and they ran just fine. Lean tuned saws might get you 5-10 hours. Straight gassed saws will get you all of about 30 minutes.
As for caring, that is the main issue. My oldest brother once had a psych job at Soledad Prison in California. He used to ask the inmates what they did for entertainment. The typical answer was they drained all the oil out of a lawn mower to see how long it would last before blowing up (again). Seems they went through a lot of mowers there at that prison at that time.
066blaster
Addicted to ArboristSite
2,000 hours with the original rings and piston???? I have owned dirt bikes of varying sizes and in the owners manual it said to change the rings every 15 hrs and the piston like every 50. And i dont need to hear the difference between the two(bikes and saws) but to me its kinda like a person getting 300,000 miles on a car . I am sure they have stuck some money into it. should rings and pistons on a big saws be considered routine maintenance??? Maybe.....
F
fuzz1500
Guest
Strangely enough...this post wasnt right without your B.S. !! Missed ya buddy........NOTI never claimed to be a saw mechanic, so I don't have a very sure diagnosis for this particular problem. But I do know that carbon forms rapidly from 2 cycle oil sticking to hot surfaces (coking). Likely more than one operating parameter was out of whack that allowed the saw to cook. Any engine can be destroyed, but Husqys are still flimsy.
F
fuzz1500
Guest
Any saw of any brand.... being run that hard..with crappy mix...and not-so-good maint........will have the same fate . Even a Heavy Stihl . ...Or was that heavy duty ??
I have owned the same type of bikes too, yet kids around here get YEARS out of CR125's with no maintenance at all, much less a ring or piston change. When I was 15to 17 I easily put 1000 hours on an RM250 without ever doing a top end.
windthrown
361 Junkie
....
windthrown
361 Junkie
In a word, no...
I have also had a slew of dirt bikes, and I rarely replaced rings or pistons on them. Yamahas, Kawis, Suzukis, 2-stroke, 4-strokes, etc. They ran for many years w/o replacing the top ends. Racing? Different world. Tear them down all the time. Similar with race saws. But with stock or woods ported saws? Nope.
Stock chainsaw rings may get soft after several years, and on the 1000 hour plus saws I buy I tend to replace the rings with a set of Cabers to bring up compression. I have never had to replace a piston or cylinder in a chainsaw unless I bought a saw that was scored. I have never heard of a pro saw needing rings after a certain number of hours, and certainly not after 15-50. I mean, you are like coming from Mars with that reply.
I've had more problems with carbon on equiptment that idles alot or is hard to use at wot all the time ie hedgetrimmer, weedeater or to bigger saw for the job. The harder you run them the less carbon issues you have. JMHO
Ndigity26
ArboristSite Operative
this sounds like an acceptation and not a norm for sure.
F
fuzz1500
Guest
No thats seems to be a fact......I have had plenty of old snowmobiles that can prove that theory !! You risk carbon builld up and fouled plugs when they sit and idle to long . Start em..and run them . If not needed..shut em down
066blaster
Addicted to ArboristSite
Not saying they should be done that often. But how bout every 500. Why wait till they blow up and then throw em out. If the o p's saw would have been looked at it would be running. And I am not buying into the theory that his oil ratio was rich..for 6 months
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Steve NW WI
Unwanted Riff Raff.
I stand corrected. I read it wrong. Press release here, as of April 2013:
http://www.dolmarpowerproducts.com/downloads/1937/Warranty_Statement_2013.pdf
90 days applies only to rental units.
F
fuzz1500
Guest
If compression isnt down..on a normally run saw...why bother crackin it open ? I ran a saw that was given to me right down to 90 PSI before it pretty much had enough . I certainly didnt hurt anything by running it down that far . I always mixed the oil right..and adjusted the carb correctly . Sometimes over maint. can be done IMO . K.I.S.S.
windthrown
361 Junkie
Even 500 hours is too often. As said above, if the compression is good, why do that? Lower compression is not going to kill a saw. New rings and pistons will also not save them from being abused, run lean, rich or straight gassed either. As for the oil, or gas, or tuning rich or whatever with this 362, the OP's saw is the exception, not the rule. Though around here where I live most loggers buy new saws every year, after they run the holy snot out of them. Not unlike the OP who admits to having run the crap out of the 362 in question. I avoid buying those saws, as they usually have new bearings, AM replacement engines, they look or run like crap, and/or other stuff is wrong with them. They are beaters.
Also no need to throw out a blown saw. Put in a new top end, new bearings, or whatever, or get a new top end and send them to a builder to be cleaned up and ported. In the rare case, I have had to part out saws on Ebay, but the parts are usually worth more than a whole used saw. Once fixed, ported or rebuilt, run the saw some more. Just today a guy here on AS got a blown 460 for $50 that will be an easy rebuild. All it needs is a new piston and rings; the cylinder can be salvaged. I like to buy low hour straight gassed saws and put new OEM P&Cs in them. They run just like new saws, and cost half as much.
514mach1
ArboristSite Operative
My powerstroke 7.3 diesels both have over 300,000 on them with no major repairs. The auto transmissions are original and don't shift odd or slip or anything (I use John Deere hy-gard low viscosity hydraulic fluid in them instead of Dex-III). My '95 acura has 254K on original engine/trans/clutch... only had a timing belt and water pump along with 2 batteries, 1 alternator, new belts, brake pads, and master cyl. My '92 F150 has 287K on all original engine/trans/rear. My '97 BMW 540i has 238K on all original drivetrain too. In fact, I've never once had an engine, trans, or rear end fail on me or need rebuilt, except for my '89 camaro. But it had a big roller cam, forged 2618 pistons, 6" rods... yadda yadda, 11.3:1 on pump gas so I didn't really expect it to last a long time with regular rips down the road over 7K rpm.
On the topic of this thread, I think it's some very rich oil mixes causing the problem. That along with the guys probably running them under load right after they start them cold. I don't let the saw warm up completely before cutting, but if I've got a 288xp or 394xp and am going to be going into big logs, I let the saw warm up a minute or two longer than the little saws I use for small firewood stuff. When my dad mixed oil, carboned piston tops and exhaust ports were normal. Some of his mixes were around 50:1, some were closer to 20:1. I wasn't the most accurate with it either. Since I started doing all the repairs/rebuilds on the saws, I've become quite precise with the fuel mixing and am always between 40:1 and 45:1. No sooted up spark plugs or caked piston tops anymore. Also, when I'm clearing hedge/locust, I'm sharpening and tightening chains and cleaning out bar oil holes and chain grooves as much as I'm actually cutting. So for a 5 hour session of draw clearing, I'm only actually cutting and running the saw about 3 hours of that. If the saw hits dirt and isn't cutting worth a darn or if the oil stops flowing to the chain, I stop right then and fix it. Maybe this guy's crew is trying to spend too much time working and not enough time keeping the saws tip-top. I dunno.
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