The worst customer support I have ever experienced!

[Fish]

Please elaborate.

When adjusting a carb, with or without a tach, you have to know what you
are doing.

If a saw starts acting squirrelly, many attempt to adjust or tune it, and
then go back to cutting, without finding the cause of the problem, usually
do some damage eventually.

Also when adjusting the high side, as you lean the mix the rpms go up and
up, then start going back down as you go even leaner, you need to stay on the rich side of that.

A tach is a good tool to have, as well as an impact wrench, you just need to
know how to use them..

 

[Paul001]

Alot of your post there is correct but what I put in bold is wrong 100%. That post does show a awful lot of attitude on you. You shouldn't feel every customer with a problem is out to screw you, some problems are the manufacturer's defects and need to be address without accusing the buyer.

None of that post excuses the fact Dale's dealer did a piss poor job of finding the the true fault with his saw. He also did not whine, he merely wanted his saw repaired. That long post does not excuse his dealer of saying bad gas when it was the dealers own gas they put in it and then later said it was bad fuel. As you can see Dolmar took a different view than the dealer and made it right.

Good post Mr. Hall. However you missed one glowing issue. The comment with regards to a fried P & C only being partially covered. If you ran a pressure/vac check on a new saw, found a bad crank seal, what would be the result?

Anything other than straight gas in the tank is a seperate converation with the customer. From a consumer stand point, and yes the courts will error on the side of caution...for the consumer, it would be impossible to prove that teh poor fuel played any part in the P & C failure. Bad crank seal would have resulted in the same issue or more than likely did cause the original failure.

However, each dealership has the right to make whatever decision they wish. Same as the customer has the right to appeal the decision to the regional or national distributor.

I it to be a very poor example of customer service/support.

 

[THALL10326]

Good post Mr. Hall. However you missed one glowing issue. The comment with regards to a fried P & C only being partially covered. If you ran a pressure/vac check on a new saw, found a bad crank seal, what would be the result?

Anything other than straight gas in the tank is a seperate converation with the customer. From a consumer stand point, and yes the courts will error on the side of caution...for the consumer, it would be impossible to prove that teh poor fuel played any part in the P & C failure. Bad crank seal would have resulted in the same issue or more than likely did cause the original failure.

However, each dealership has the right to make whatever decision they wish. Same as the customer has the right to appeal the decision to the regional or national distributor.

I it to be a very poor example of customer service/support.

Good point there Paul. Looking at his long post I merely detected alot of attitude toward any warranty and to me thats not justified.

Find a bad crank seal on a fried saw, thats not anything the customer did, warranty all the way..

Alot of talk about fuel nowdays too. We've been told by Stihl that freshly mixed fuel stored in a clean sealed can is good up to 3 months. I would have a hard time telling someone you have to dispose of all your fuel mix every 3-4 weeks. I don't want to hear "you gotta be out your mind" too much, I'm close already,LOL

 

[Dale.Z]

Man this is incredible! A wealth of knowledge and some humor on the side, it don’t get any better then that.
A few last points here before this chapter is over. I was told but the Dolmar rep that the dealer position was that if I brought the saw back AGAIN with another scored P&C that he would not stand behind it.
I think I understand his reasoning with that statement but if that is the case then I need THEM both the mfg / dealer to tell me the truth on just what exactly did such damage so if it was my fault I damm sure don’t want to do it again!
Before I even took possession of the saw I called the manufacture in Alpharetta, GA. asked to speak with someone in tech support or sales that I just had a few questions.
I wanted to know exactly how I was supposed to break in this five hundred dollar investment of mine. Got to speak with a very knowledgeable representative and he informed me on what to do and what not to do.
First and foremost I was instructed to never run it WOT if it was not under a load. Next I asked about what type of fuel / oil should I use? Here is where I became convinced that this guy knew his business when he explained to me about the different additives in the different fuel manufactures. Bottom line was stay away from Chevron fuels with the Techron additive in it was way too caustic for my saw and if anyway possible to run non-ethanol premium grade fuel. Oil was important, recommended that I run Dolmar Synthetic oil said something about it being in a silver container and even though it did not say synthetic on the bottle it was. Lastly once I had run about two gallons of fuel through the saw it was recommended I take it back to the dealer and let them adjust the settings.

OK here is where things get interesting. The day I took possession of my new 5100 I looked around his shop for the synthetic oil but did not see any, only the black bottles of oil covered in a nice blanket of dust and dirt. When I asked about it I was told that Dolmar did not make synthetic oil and it was not necessary just run the Dolmar oil. Then when I asked about the non-ethanol fuel I was told there is no such fuel any more just use a good grade of regular fuel. Now who would you trust at this point? I chose the manufacture rep in Alpharetta GA. Even though I could not find the Dolmar synthetic oil the best I could do was STIHL HP Ultra synthetic and yes I did find a gas station that sold 100% ethanol free fuel, cost more but I didn’t care I am protecting my investment.
After my break-in I returned to the dealer as instructed by the mfg rep. I was disappointed with the performance of the 5100 didn’t seem to have any more top end as did the 510. I requested they put a tack on it and yes it was way low. Once adjusted the saw became a screamer.
Then two trees later (one oak and one ash) and two months time and one attempted firewood re-size job the saw malfunctioned.
My whole point here is I know that there are people in this world that should not be allowed to own power equipment anything over an electric tooth brush and they are considered dangerous. But what is a guy to do if this was caused by all the potential possibility discussed here? Crank seal/ bearings etc… maybe I need to find one of those alcohol testers? Thought maybe sending it back to the mfg and having them do one of those "factory recertified" jobs on it if that’s even possible?
O well probably need to just let it go get my saw back be glad there going to fix it and hope for the best.

 

[Brad101]

No kidding, me too. That piston does not look like any lean running scoring I've ever seen. It looks more like something sheered the left side of the piston. 3/4 of what you can see through the exhaust looks like new. I see no way possible 3/4 of the piston was cooler than that 1/4 part thats runined. My guess and its only a guess is maybe the piston pin clip came off and got wedged between the piston and cylinder. If you look closely the line where the new looking part stops and the torn up part begins is a striaght up and down line.

Pre-ignition is the cause of faluire here.

Pre-ignition in a spark-ignition engine is a technically different phenomenon from engine knocking, and describes the event wherein the air/fuel mixture in the cylinder ignites before the spark plug fires. Pre-ignition is initiated by an ignition source other than the spark, such as hot spots in the combustion chamber, a spark plug that runs too hot for the application, or carbonaceous deposits in the combustion chamber heated to incandescence by previous engine combustion events.

Pre-ignition can destroy an engine in just a few strokes of the piston.

Given proper combustion chamber design, preignition can generally be eliminated by proper spark plug selection, proper fuel/air mixture adjustment, and periodic cleaning of the combustion chambers.

If you would send this chainsaw to any factory service department for analysis the failure would be determined pre-ignition. The root cause of the failure would likely be due to lean air/fuel mixture caused by an improperly adjusted carb.

It is really easy to spot in failures of this kind by the limited scoring of the piston which are heat related and not mechanical.

Alot of times the engines are ran to the point of total meltdown and the actual cause (pre-ignition) is missed due to the complete scoring of the piston mostly on the exhaust side.

The chainsaw was more than likely simply running to lean.

 

[Paul001]

I can't figure out why the dealer has to pay for half, unless that's their punishment for being jerks...

As long as the dealer doesn't turn around and bill you for 'your half', things should be fine. But from the way the diagnosis was done, I wouldn't want them working on my saw past the warranty period, there seems to be a competence problem here. 'Blame the fuel and adjust the carb' might work as a quick first attempt, but when it comes back as 'you didn't fix it', they've got to at least look at the freaking piston or check the compression...

Do Dolmar dealers get their warranty authorization through Dolmar USA or the distributors?

I went back through this thread because that is exactly what has been bothering me on this issue. Either the factory agrees the issue is the result of defect and they cover it completely or they don't. From the sounds of it it appears to me as if Dolmar is blaming their dealer for improperly setting the saw up or they do not feel it was their problem and are taking care of the issue on the basis of good will only.

Without them havign the saw in their hands it would seem difficult for them to make a determination other than it was a manufacturing defect and cover it 100%.

Strange.

Makes me glad we've made the choices, as to what brand we carry, that we have.

 

[THALL10326]

Pre-ignition is the cause of faluire here.

Pre-ignition in a spark-ignition engine is a technically different phenomenon from engine knocking, and describes the event wherein the air/fuel mixture in the cylinder ignites before the spark plug fires. Pre-ignition is initiated by an ignition source other than the spark, such as hot spots in the combustion chamber, a spark plug that runs too hot for the application, or carbonaceous deposits in the combustion chamber heated to incandescence by previous engine combustion events.

Pre-ignition can destroy an engine in just a few strokes of the piston.

Given proper combustion chamber design, preignition can generally be eliminated by proper spark plug selection, proper fuel/air mixture adjustment, and periodic cleaning of the combustion chambers.

If you would send this chainsaw to any factory service department for analysis the failure would be determined pre-ignition. The root cause of the failure would likely be due to lean air/fuel mixture caused by an improperly adjusted carb.

It is really easy to spot in failures of this kind by the limited scoring of the piston which are heat related and not mechanical.

Alot of times the engines are ran to the point of total meltdown and the actual cause (pre-ignition) is missed due to the complete scoring of the piston mostly on the exhaust side.

The chainsaw was more than likely simply running to lean.

Good point there and something I hadn't thought of because I haven't seen the top of his piston. In most pre-ignition cases the top of the piston looks like its been beat with a hammer and punch. I see this alot in old concrete saws where dust has entered the engine, pitted the top of the cylinder and created hot spots causing pre-ignition.

I think your probly hitting the nail on the head, good thinking on your part,

 

[GrantC]

Yeah, Brad's a sharp cookie.

 

[stihlboy]

Good point there and something I hadn't thought of because I haven't seen the top of his piston. In most pre-ignition cases the top of the piston looks like its been beat with a hammer and punch. I see this alot in old concrete saws where dust has entered the engine, pitted the top of the cylinder and created hot spots causing pre-ignition.

I think your probly hitting the nail on the head, good thinking on your part,

i too said hot spot gone wrong lol he just put it in better wording than i would have

 

[RVALUE]

When adjusting a carb, with or without a tach, you have to know what you
are doing.

If a saw starts acting squirrelly, many attempt to adjust or tune it, and
then go back to cutting, without finding the cause of the problem, usually
do some damage eventually.

Also when adjusting the high side, as you lean the mix the rpms go up and
up, then start going back down as you go even leaner, you need to stay on the rich side of that.

A tach is a good tool to have, as well as an impact wrench, you just need to
know how to use them..

Thank you, I was afraid you were going to tell me that the tach itself could do something to the ignition, etc.

You were merely expounding upon the fact that a little knowlege (and a tach) is a dangerous thing.

Good post. I hope someone is at the Arkansas GTG that can look at my jug and tell me fairly accurately what happened.

 

[Mac_Muz]

I respectfully disagree with Brad. Ping is normally seen over a broad area, and this damage is confined to a far to small area to satisfy me.

I think there was a chip of metal, one that escaped being cleaned when the saw was made.

I have built engines and seen hand guns which failed due to contamination.

The gun wasn't yet fired and was returned with rifling mill chips still adheard to the bore.

With modern machines doing most of the labor these days, items like milled piston grooves are just a place for a chip to hide, or a bore to catch a hard metalic object, and have it go un-noticed.

I don't buy ping on this one.

 

[Madsaw]

Good point there and something I hadn't thought of because I haven't seen the top of his piston. In most pre-ignition cases the top of the piston looks like its been beat with a hammer and punch. I see this alot in old concrete saws where dust has entered the engine, pitted the top of the cylinder and created hot spots causing pre-ignition.

I think your probly hitting the nail on the head, good thinking on your part,

Thall,
the piston I posted pics of is almost presteen on the top. Just some carbon deposit just enough to darken the surface.
Bob

 

[THALL10326]

I respectfully disagree with Brad. Ping is normally seen over a broad area, and this damage is confined to a far to small area to satisfy me.

I think there was a chip of metal, one that escaped being cleaned when the saw was made.

I have built engines and seen hand guns which failed due to contamination.

The gun wasn't yet fired and was returned with rifling mill chips still adheard to the bore.

With modern machines doing most of the labor these days, items like milled piston grooves are just a place for a chip to hide, or a bore to catch a hard metalic object, and have it go un-noticed.

I don't buy ping on this one.

Its really hard to tell without seeing the top of the piston. May be some more damage in there. I've seen some pistons that looked like a little man was in there with a hammer beating dents in it. My first thought was something sheered that piston but Brad brings up a good point. You do as well.

One thing is for certain far as I'm concerned regardless of what caused that damaged to Dale's saw, I've never seen a piston damaged like that one. I hope they find the true cause and tell him so he can tell us, I'm very curious about what happen to the engine...

 

[THALL10326]

Thall,
the piston I posted pics of is almost presteen on the top. Just some carbon deposit just enough to darken the surface.
Bob

I looked at yours and thought dayummm another one. Your scoring is odd as well. Most scoring I see in Stihl's is directly in the exhaust area, rarely on the side like yours.

Down at Va Beach where they blow up saws on purpose to show what lean seizures look like the exhaust area was always the scored part, not so much anywhere else on the piston. They gave me a 036 to blow up. I kept trying to cook it but couldn't. I finally leaned that b-tch to 16,000 rpms, held it wide open in my hand until it finally cut off after about 2-3 minutes wide open. We tore it apart the the exhaust side was like jello, the rest of the piston looked ok.

 

[SawTroll]

I already know the awnser but is there another Dolmar dealer anywhere close??

Mike

I guess you are thinking of a carb adjustment issue - from the beginning....

 

[rob066]

I am baffled about the quality of the Dolmar 5100. Is it just me or do numerous 5100s go down. I am starting to think a poulan pro would last longer. mmmmmmmmaybe a simple carburetor adjust would be the answer. Iam sorry to hear about your saw how frustrating that must be for you.