tractor mount splitter: pto vs. hydraulic

[farmboyhull]

i've got a 45 horse mahindra with 11gpm and a 30 year old massey that's about 25 horse and unknown hydraulics. i'd like a tractor mount splitter to split around 10 - 15 cords a year. i'd rather use the massey than the mahindra.

i'm unsure about the needed pto speed to run a pto splitter like a timberwolf tw-3 and if the massey ahs enough juice, or if it would have to run around 2300 to keep the needed power.

i'm also unsure of the engine speed to keep a hydraulic powered splitter going.

any help?

thanks

david

 

[omegajim]

The model of the Massey would help.

If the tractor was 40 years old, I'd say the Mahindra would have it beat for gpm. But seeing as it's 30 years old, the Massey could be close if not more.

 

[Former Saw Builder]

I would be suprised if that old MF couldn't handle either type of splitter.

 

[omegajim]

I was working on the premise of hydraulics because I wasn't aware there was anything splitter-wise than ran off a pto.

Not to say it couldn't exist.

 

[omegajim]

There are hydraulic pumps designed to be powered by a tractor pto.

My dad has one, problem is, it will need some kind of adapter because it has an odd (unusual) spline configuration.

........well that and the reservoir weighs about 1/2 ton. It should outlast civilization as we know it, the way it's built.

 

[ericjeeper]

I am betting on the late model

I doubt the old MF possibly a MF35 will have enough GPM. Don't get me wrong it will likely run it.. But just painfully slow.
I have a 3pt mounted splitter that I am going to plumb into the PTO driven pump on my Long 30 horse tractor. The dealer said he feels pretty sure it is atleast an eleven gallon per minute pump. The pump is for the loader. I will just tie into the lines to the loader.

 

[farmboyhull]

i apologize foor not knowing the tractor. i still don't. it came with the house we bought. but until i know it, there may be some basic truths people can help with. there are pto powered splitters. timberwolf makes a good looking one. the question on those is this: does the tractor need to be run at high rpms to make the splitter go at it's rated cycle time? or can teh tractor be idling?

same question on a hydraulic splitter like the american i'm looking at. how fast does the tractor need to run to run the splitter at its rated cycle time?

david

 

[leon]

tractor powered log splitter

i apologize foor not knowing the tractor. i still don't. it came with the house we bought. but until i know it, there may be some basic truths people can help with. there are pto powered splitters. timberwolf makes a good looking one. the question on those is this: does the tractor need to be run at high rpms to make the splitter go at it's rated cycle time? or can teh tractor be idling?

same question on a hydraulic splitter like the american i'm looking at. how fast does the tractor need to run to run the splitter at its rated cycle time?

david

Regarding the splines on the power take off shaft which deliverers rotary motion to pump etc.

The old standard spline is 540 RPM-meaning their are fewer splines on the stub shaft.

The new splines are ment for 1,000 rpm so you need to make sure you delver either 540 rpm or 1,000 rpm to the pump- a alot of tractor makers haveadapter sleeves which fit over the original equipment shaft-1000 rpm to power 540 rpm equipment- it all depends on the throttle dial and what speed is indicated for which purpose on the dial on the dash of the tractor as that rpm must be maintained to properly operate the equipment in use-no luggging or over speeding which will make for expensive repairs.:chainsawguy:

 

[infomet]

Running a big tractor to split firewood seems a really poor use of fuel. They are dirty and will use many times the fuel of a splitter, not to mention putting time on the valuable tractor engine.

 

[drmiller100]

Running a big tractor to split firewood seems a really poor use of fuel. They are dirty and will use many times the fuel of a splitter, not to mention putting time on the valuable tractor engine.

the splitter engines are often rated for 500 hours before they are junk.

the tractor engine is probably good for 20,000 hours.

to make 10 horsepower out of gasoline takes a given amount of gasoline and air. unless the tractor is REALLY bad, it isnt going ot burn much more fuel then teh cheapy engines.

lets say a pto pump costs 300 bucks, and the briggs engine costs 1000 bucks for the engine, and 300 bucks for the pump.
and lets say you already have the tractor.

so how long can you run the tractor on the 1000 bucks difference???? Much longer then the briggs engine will last.

 

[omegajim]

the splitter engines are often rated for 500 hours before they are junk.

the tractor engine is probably good for 20,000 hours.

Yes, small air cooled engines are good for 500 hrs. The compression rings usually go. Larger 9 - 10 hp engines are actually good for 1500 hrs, and I doubt you will use the splitter that much.

The tractor engine is good for a solid 5,000 hours or better between overhauls.

Lastly, the ideal would be a diesel, about 50 - 60 hp, which can idle and pump enough fluid to do an adequate if not good job. With the diesel engine at idle, you could run all day on 5 gallons of diesel fuel, even in a 60 horse tractor because you are idling.

The bigger question is "how many engines do I want to fiddle with?"

 

[ericjeeper]

yeap and how many do I wish to drag to the woods

Yes, small air cooled engines are good for 500 hrs. The compression rings usually go. Larger 9 - 10 hp engines are actually good for 1500 hrs, and I doubt you will use the splitter that much.

The tractor engine is good for a solid 5,000 hours or better between overhauls.

Lastly, the ideal would be a diesel, about 50 - 60 hp, which can idle and pump enough fluid to do an adequate if not good job. With the diesel engine at idle, you could run all day on 5 gallons of diesel fuel, even in a 60 horse tractor because you are idling.

The bigger question is "how many engines do I want to fiddle with?"

We cut and split our wood in the woods then haul it in. Leaving the mess behind.
I am going to rig the 3pt and pull the trailer behind,.
I just rebuilt the tractor engine so now I would like to start on that 5,000 hours of run time. LOL

Plus it gives me a reason to take that tractor to the woods.. It has the loader on it. and is 4x4. Oh well we are going to the woods this morning to cut a few loads..My son needs some more ready to sell.

 

[SWI Don]

Unless you have a fairly new tractor I would go with the PTO pump.

1. older tractors do not have as high of pressure hydraulics. The newer they are the better you get.

2. Traditionally most uses for hydraulics in farm machinery were for positioning things. Loading manure or ?? with a loader was probably the highest duty cycle they would see and even then on the really old stuff they used PTO pumps a lot on tractors that already had hydraulics - they were not adequate. When they started putting hydraulic swing hoppers on grain augers a lot of tractors made in the 70's early 80's were found not to have enough hydraulic cooling capacity to run the orbit motor at high speed for the 15min that it took to unload a wagon.

The down side for a PTO pump is that you have to have a tank and separate pump from the one you already own on your tractor.

Don

 

[infomet]

Eric, let's see a picture of that rig and how you hook up the trailer. Maybe you just carry the splitter in the trailer until you get to the cutting site??
I suppose you'll drop the trailer and then put the splitter right next to it, for loading the wood??

The standard rig for old ford tractors, and others, I expect, was to put an auxilliary hydraulic pump on the front end of the crankshaft. I think there were aftermarket brackets that fitted up to the tractor somehow, but I've never seen one.

 

[omegajim]

It has the loader on it. and is 4x4.

Just a few of the many facts that got "lost, forgotten or whatever."

Why yes, if you have a 4x4 tractor with a loader it, by all means the tractor is the smart way to go.

Funny you forgot to mention that earlier.

 

[farmboyhull]

thanks for the help.

the mf is a 1980 2wd 210. 25 horse, 21 horse at the pto, witha 5.4 gpm hydrulic pump with a relief valve at 1700 psi.

seems to me a pto splitter would definitely be the way to go.

now, what i'm wondering is this.
can the mf power a pto splitter, or is it drastically uderpowered?
at what rpm would the engine have to be?

it sounds as if i may have to mess around with the spliens on the pto, i'll look into that. i'd much rather use the massey than the mahindra to make this work.

any more thoughts?


thanks

david

 

[SWI Don]

Prince makes pumps that mount directly on your pto shaft. The 5.7 cu in. pump puts out 11.4 gpm at 2000 psi 540 rpm and 18.1 hp required. If you have a 1000 rpm there is a 3.6 cu. in pump but it requires 22.6 hp.

These are single stage pumps so they don't have a high an low speed you get a medium speed (really it's the high speed for the 5-6 hp splitters) and a medium - high pressure.

If you want to go to a two stage pump then things get more tricky.

Don

 

[ericjeeper]

I have not hooked it to this tractor yet

Eric, let's see a picture of that rig and how you hook up the trailer. Maybe you just carry the splitter in the trailer until you get to the cutting site??
I suppose you'll drop the trailer and then put the splitter right next to it, for loading the wood??

The standard rig for old ford tractors, and others, I expect, was to put an auxilliary hydraulic pump on the front end of the crankshaft. I think there were aftermarket brackets that fitted up to the tractor somehow, but I've never seen one.

I currently use the other tractor. towing a wagon with a ball hitch on the back towing my 5 horse gas powered splitter. It is an excellent setup, as the wedge is on the front end and we just split and pitch the wood forward into the wagon.But it is a real SOAB to turn around in the woods. I can back it straight out of the barn usually on the first try in pup fashion.
May plan was to hook the 3 point splitter directly to the wagon.
If you have ever attemped to hook up a 3 point splitter to the tractor. is closely resembles hooking up a post hole auger..
Which I best describe this action closely to a monkey trying to Screw a football.They are a real pain in the caboose.Right now I have it stood up on end leaning against the barn wall to get it out of the way.,
The 30 horse diesel will probably use LESS fuel per hour than the 5 horse briggs. It sips fuel

 

[Mold Mechanic]

I've got a 3 point mount splitter that we converted to a pull type, I'm toying with the idea of putting a hydraulic pump on my wood gettin' pickup and taking the splitter with me when I go cut.

I've been running the splitter for years off of my 930 Case diesel tractor, which is pretty short on hydraulic pressure, it is easy to get the wedge stuck in a round. This past spring, I shimmed the relief valve to somewhere near 2000 psi so I could get some good out of the loader, so I'll see how well that works on the splittler this year.

I've been seriously toying with the idea of buying one of those 30 ton gas powered splitters from harbor freight for $1200 and saving the PITA of having to use the tractor to run it with, but it would be a different story if I had a spare gas tractor with hydraulics sitting around to run it with. ( I also have to use the Case to push snow with )

 

[ericjeeper]

I could not imagine

Using a gasoline tractor to run a splitter,.. The last gas tractor we had was a 350 farmall. it took 20 gallons a day to even have out of the barn