hello everyone...glad to be a part of this forum..just found it...looks great! I've been grinding stumps since 2004, now on my 2nd grinder, purchased another SC252 as the first worked out well for me. My only real issue, with my first machine and my 2nd machine (which now has 555 hrs), is my pillow block bearings crapping out at about 150 hours. Is this normal? Im pretty good about keeping sharp teeth, and if anything I have over greased my bearings in the past...but do stick close to the manufacture recommended lube schedule. Anyone use different bearings other than those sold by Vermeer...they are about $250 for all 4, and Vermeer is 80 miles from me....just hopeing to get something better for less. I just installed Dodge bearings (trying something different)...and after 10 hours I can tell they are not going to make it! Suggestions are greatly appreciated...thanks and stay safe!
Vermeer 252 pillow block bearing problems
- Thread starter Humpstump
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TreeClimber57
Addicted to ArboristSite
I have a welder who works for me part time for me (he works in a machine shop as well about 20 miles away).
He replaced a pillow bearing on the 252 (which we broke removing to put a Multi-Tip on - somebody had put loctite on it and it would not come out even with heat - shop press was pushing on it and torch on it.. finally it simply gave way). He simply bought one at a local bearing supply location (made in the USA.. and think it was around $60 - but that was one.. so not really a savings just that it was close by and we got same day). It is exactly the same size and dimensions - in fact you could not tell the two apart and runs fine. It really is you get what you pay for I guess.
If you have a bearing supply, take the old one to them and have them match it. They likely will have one in stock.
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tomtrees58
Addicted to ArboristSite
they go ever year or 150 hrs 
ozzy42
Addicted to ArboristSite
Yeah,there is not too many parts on a vemeer grinder that can't be purchased elsewhere. You just have to figure out the original part # instead of vemeer's.
I have found bearings ,belts and filters from other suppliers.
Some maybe the original part ,but without V's name and price on them.
I would imagine the same is true of other makes.
Same problem here what it tells me is the is the bearings are to small to handle the load and it was designed poorly . But they will ever admit that!
stumper63
ArboristSite Operative
Hey Humpstump,
Not sure what you got going on with the bearings. I've been running a 2003 252, got 4212 hours on it, same engine, just to give some perspective. I'm the only operator.
Just changed my cutter wheel bearings yesterday, got just over 700 hours on that set, I average between 550 to 750 hours. That's on the cutter wheel. The jackshaft I get about 900 hours.
I grease 6 pumps into cutter wheel bearings at end of evey day just before putting her on the trailer, with bearings still hot from running, draws grease into bearings thoroughly. Jackshaft gets two pumps per bearing.
Perhaps you may be over-tensioning the cutter wheel belt? I tension mine about one complete turn of the adjustment bolt beyond what it takes for the belt not to barely slip, you get the feel and ear for it soon enough. Then it seems I only have to re-tension about every 40-50 hours, takes two minutes, did it this week. Usually only have to tighten adjustment bolt about 1/2 turn.
I tried getting after-market bearings from our local bearing supply, McGuire bearing, but the pillow blocks were way thinner material, looked pretty cheap, and they said that was all they had or could get. They were something like $24 each. I opted to stick with Vermeer since it's quite a hassle to replace bearings all the time. I would be interested in where TreeClimber57's friend got identical bearings from for $60. Vermeer now wants $86 for a cutter wheel bearing, $60 sounds better to me.
Anyway, you should be getting way longer life out of your bearings. Doesn't seem like a design flaw to me, but probably a tensioning issue. Hope this helps.
Stumper63
Not sure what you got going on with the bearings. I've been running a 2003 252, got 4212 hours on it, same engine, just to give some perspective. I'm the only operator.
Just changed my cutter wheel bearings yesterday, got just over 700 hours on that set, I average between 550 to 750 hours. That's on the cutter wheel. The jackshaft I get about 900 hours.
I grease 6 pumps into cutter wheel bearings at end of evey day just before putting her on the trailer, with bearings still hot from running, draws grease into bearings thoroughly. Jackshaft gets two pumps per bearing.
Perhaps you may be over-tensioning the cutter wheel belt? I tension mine about one complete turn of the adjustment bolt beyond what it takes for the belt not to barely slip, you get the feel and ear for it soon enough. Then it seems I only have to re-tension about every 40-50 hours, takes two minutes, did it this week. Usually only have to tighten adjustment bolt about 1/2 turn.
I tried getting after-market bearings from our local bearing supply, McGuire bearing, but the pillow blocks were way thinner material, looked pretty cheap, and they said that was all they had or could get. They were something like $24 each. I opted to stick with Vermeer since it's quite a hassle to replace bearings all the time. I would be interested in where TreeClimber57's friend got identical bearings from for $60. Vermeer now wants $86 for a cutter wheel bearing, $60 sounds better to me.
Anyway, you should be getting way longer life out of your bearings. Doesn't seem like a design flaw to me, but probably a tensioning issue. Hope this helps.
Stumper63
thanks Stumper...you helped me realize I must be doing something wrong??? Not sure what it is yet. I am the only one using my machine as well. I do not abuse it in my opinion, but I do get after it pretty good. I do not have auto sweep and basically cut as much as the motor / torque can handle. I can't believe my problem is overtightening the cutter wheel belt though. Been there, done that early on with my first machine back in 2004. After that lesson, I have always used the torque wrench and set it properly the first go round.....very slight squeek when engaged, and the belt will slip if put in a bind or under and very hard load, but other than that I only rarely hear a slight whine or slip. If the whine or slip continues, I tighten it...but I usally only go 1/2 turn on the adjustment bolt, and that does the trick for a good 35 - 40 hours or so as you mention....Im getting 500 hours on the cutter wheel belt, I'd assume that is ok? 6 pumps of grease sounds massive to me, Vermeer recommends 2 per 10 hrs....Is that 6 per cutter wheel bearing? But who am I to say, you are getting much better life than I. Do you use Vermeer grease? Here is a thought / and or question....I noticed years ago, my teeth never wore out evenly...every other angled tooth would wear out at different frequencies...and the straight tooth wore very slowly. I started years ago, changing every other set as they would wear. If I changed set A, C, and E..this time....I'd change set B, D, F the next time....I'd change the straights every couple changes of the others...this seemed to work well....I'd always cut pretty good and fast...and becasue I was changing 1/2 teeth about every 8 - 10 hours...i never really slowed much. Could this be my problem...some sort of uneven pounding on the bearings? Just purchased Yellow Jackets, and excited about giving them a shot. Thanks again for all the advise from you all...sorry to sound like such a dummy...but really nobody around hear that seems to know much about stump grinding. I enjoy it and make decent money at it...but cutting down on maint time and cost would be nice!
stumper63
ArboristSite Operative
Well it sounds like you're tensioning the belts right, maybe it's lack of grease. I know what Vermeer's recommendations are, but it never seem like enuf grease to me, with them being down in the dirt. Actually, I purge the bearing opposite the belt until I just see grease starting to come out, sometimes that's 8 -10 pumps. The belt side bearing gets six pumps, any more and grease comes out into belt area and fouls the belt.
Cutter belts last a long time, your 500 hours is good.
I don't think the tooth rotation would affect the bearings that much. I have no set pattern, just replace when dull. I am running a Sandvik wheel for the last 1900 hours, but had about same bearing intervals, maybe a bit better with the Sandvik wheel, but I at least got 500-600 hours on the cutter wheel bearings with Vermeer Pro Series teeth.
Stumper63
Cutter belts last a long time, your 500 hours is good.
I don't think the tooth rotation would affect the bearings that much. I have no set pattern, just replace when dull. I am running a Sandvik wheel for the last 1900 hours, but had about same bearing intervals, maybe a bit better with the Sandvik wheel, but I at least got 500-600 hours on the cutter wheel bearings with Vermeer Pro Series teeth.
Stumper63
thanks again...you have much more time on a grinder than I do...I'll keep on keeping on, and trying a couple different things and see what if anything gets better for me. I purchased my first grinder used with 400 hours, I put about 1000 more on it and sold it. Then got a brand new one in late 08 and have put 555 on it since then....so really only done about 1600 hours total for me. Even though I think Im a pro, I guess im still a rookie compared to some of you guys. thanks again...really enjoy looking around this forum...cool stuff for sure
tomtrees58
Addicted to ArboristSite
TreeClimber57
Addicted to ArboristSite
I am not sure where to find them in USA, as I am in Canada.
He purchased from Canadian Bearings.. in Barrie, but they are in many cities across Canada.
http://www.canadianbearings.com/publicWeb/content/company/profile.aspx?Lang=en
What you need to find is North Amerian made bearings vs offshore.. and ones made to same specs (to handle same type of load and abuse). There are other commercial applications that can take equal to or greater abuse then grinders put on them, so bearings should be available.
kevlarwiz
New Member
Bearing fix and options
Hello everyone! I came across this thread when one of my customers was telling me about a solution he found for his pillow block bearings going out on his grinder. He had a 252 and the pillow block bearings from Vermeer were going out all the time becuase he used it every day. From what he told me it takes some time to take it all apart and replace the bearings. The top bearings are a 1-1/2 pillow block bearing. Inudstry numbers for that bearing are UCP208-24 and the bottom bearings are 1-1/4 and the industry number for those bearings are UCP207-20. These bearings are just like the ones that come from Vermeer and they will last just as long as the factory ones. I guess this is fine for someone that doesnt use his machine often. These bearings are single row ball bearings and they are just not strong enough for the demand this machine puts out. What he found is that if you change the bearings over to a Type-E pillow block bearing then the bearing life gets extended a lot. He went from changing them every 3-6 months to every 2-3 years. The Type-E bearings are double taper roller bearings (two taper roller bearings back to back) and they are the strongest pillow block bearings made in those two shaft sizes. They are what the machine should have come with but I believe they didn't because they are more expensive. But if you use your 252 a lot the price difference is not an issue. The industry number for the 1-1/2 is 19321108 and the number for the 1-1/4 is 19321104. He told me that the 1-1/4 has the same bolt pattern as the factory bearing so you can just change it out. The 1-1/2 bearing on the other hand has a slightly different bolt pattern and you will have to modify the 252 to take it. I was told it does not take much work to do the change. I hope what I have found out helps some people. We do sell them on our website or you can get them from any bearing supplier. Please don't feel that you have to get them from me. The info is more to help people. My store is thebigbearingstore. Thanks!
Hello everyone! I came across this thread when one of my customers was telling me about a solution he found for his pillow block bearings going out on his grinder. He had a 252 and the pillow block bearings from Vermeer were going out all the time becuase he used it every day. From what he told me it takes some time to take it all apart and replace the bearings. The top bearings are a 1-1/2 pillow block bearing. Inudstry numbers for that bearing are UCP208-24 and the bottom bearings are 1-1/4 and the industry number for those bearings are UCP207-20. These bearings are just like the ones that come from Vermeer and they will last just as long as the factory ones. I guess this is fine for someone that doesnt use his machine often. These bearings are single row ball bearings and they are just not strong enough for the demand this machine puts out. What he found is that if you change the bearings over to a Type-E pillow block bearing then the bearing life gets extended a lot. He went from changing them every 3-6 months to every 2-3 years. The Type-E bearings are double taper roller bearings (two taper roller bearings back to back) and they are the strongest pillow block bearings made in those two shaft sizes. They are what the machine should have come with but I believe they didn't because they are more expensive. But if you use your 252 a lot the price difference is not an issue. The industry number for the 1-1/2 is 19321108 and the number for the 1-1/4 is 19321104. He told me that the 1-1/4 has the same bolt pattern as the factory bearing so you can just change it out. The 1-1/2 bearing on the other hand has a slightly different bolt pattern and you will have to modify the 252 to take it. I was told it does not take much work to do the change. I hope what I have found out helps some people. We do sell them on our website or you can get them from any bearing supplier. Please don't feel that you have to get them from me. The info is more to help people. My store is thebigbearingstore. Thanks!
I found that a lot of it has to do with the alignment or how square the the pulleys are to each other,also as mentioned too tight of a drive belt also. Feel the bearings after running it they should not be hot they should run mostly cool if hot somethings out. Better yet check them with a heat gun and post the numbers.
stumper63
ArboristSite Operative
Hey Kevlarwiz,
Can you get your customer on the forum and have him explain what was needed to fit the 1.5"? It looks to me that the distance between the mounting bolts is about 7/8" greater. But would be nice to know how he got them to fit because I've always been looking for a better bearing too.
stumper63
Can you get your customer on the forum and have him explain what was needed to fit the 1.5"? It looks to me that the distance between the mounting bolts is about 7/8" greater. But would be nice to know how he got them to fit because I've always been looking for a better bearing too.
stumper63
CalTreeEquip
ArboristSite Guru
Nice Kevlarwiz! Thanks for the numbers.
Grease and quality.
I run the Baldor/Dodge bearings on every piece of equipment I can. A few things about high quality pillow block bearings you may want to know.
1. Don't over-grease them!!! this is very important. What happens when you over-grease a bearing is that you literally push the seals out of them. The Baldor/Dodge bearins are sealed. When the seal is "broken" or pushed out then the bearing will let dirt and moisture into the bearing surface, causing them to fail prematurely. I only grease my bearings when then start to make a slight amount of noise when rotating the cutter wheel by hand with the machine off, and then only give them enough to quiet them down. Using this simple technique, I made the main load pillow block bearings on my drilling rig last for approx 20,000 hours and still counting. (yes you read that right, 20,000 hours)
2. The ammount of preasure against them is nearly irrelevent. The bearings on the rig have a tremendous ammount of pressure against them. They are holding ALL of the power that a 6 cylinder Perkins diesel can put out! There is no good reason why these bearings should fail in 500 hours on a stump grinder if taken care of properly. They take a serious beating on the rig and keep right on spinning smoothly. Also, just as a point of refference, the rig has 4 belts that drive a 3-stack hydraulic pump that runs the whole rig. Those 4 belts have roughy 6-8 times the holding power of the belts on the vermeer sc252. And they are cranked down tight enough that you could almost play a tune on them. These bearings are on a 1 1/4" shaft. Also, another place we have pillow block bearings on the rig is the winch. The winch has a 1" diameter shaft and is subjected to well over 2,000 lbs on a fairly regular basis. Those bearings are still the original bearings put on in 1975!!!
3. The angle of the shaft is also nearly irrelevent as the purpose for pillow block bearings is to make up the difference of not being able to get things perfectly aligned. The shaft hole through the center of the bearing allows for a lot of angular movement. In my experience, it really doesn't matter if the shaft is a few degrees off. The bearing surface on the inside of the pillow block is meant to handle a load in a lot of different angles, just so the main load is not side to side.
4. The quality of the grease is a huge key factor to making the bearings last! I personally use and very highly recommend the Amsoil E.P. Moly grease. It works great in this application. The moly in the grease helps make it extremely slick and also coats the bearing surfaces. The moly also protects the bearings in a "run dry" situation, meaning that the bearings are still slick even if the grease has dried up or worked it's way out of the bearing. Though I do not recommend running them dry for any length of time.
I appologize for the lengthy post, but feel it is important to get the information out to my fellow equipment owners/operators. I hope this helps all of you in your quest for less maintenance and better proffit.
I am currently working on retrofitting a Lombardini diesel engine in place of my old 20 hp Honda on my vermeer sc252. I replaced the bearings on the grinder shortly after I bought it and put the Baldor/Dodge bearings on. The bearings on the jack shaft were a simple direct replacement. The bearings on the grinding wheel took a small amount of grinding to make them fit. I will get the part numbers for these bearings later this week and will get back to you with them.
Have a great day and happy grinding
I run the Baldor/Dodge bearings on every piece of equipment I can. A few things about high quality pillow block bearings you may want to know.
1. Don't over-grease them!!! this is very important. What happens when you over-grease a bearing is that you literally push the seals out of them. The Baldor/Dodge bearins are sealed. When the seal is "broken" or pushed out then the bearing will let dirt and moisture into the bearing surface, causing them to fail prematurely. I only grease my bearings when then start to make a slight amount of noise when rotating the cutter wheel by hand with the machine off, and then only give them enough to quiet them down. Using this simple technique, I made the main load pillow block bearings on my drilling rig last for approx 20,000 hours and still counting. (yes you read that right, 20,000 hours)
2. The ammount of preasure against them is nearly irrelevent. The bearings on the rig have a tremendous ammount of pressure against them. They are holding ALL of the power that a 6 cylinder Perkins diesel can put out! There is no good reason why these bearings should fail in 500 hours on a stump grinder if taken care of properly. They take a serious beating on the rig and keep right on spinning smoothly. Also, just as a point of refference, the rig has 4 belts that drive a 3-stack hydraulic pump that runs the whole rig. Those 4 belts have roughy 6-8 times the holding power of the belts on the vermeer sc252. And they are cranked down tight enough that you could almost play a tune on them. These bearings are on a 1 1/4" shaft. Also, another place we have pillow block bearings on the rig is the winch. The winch has a 1" diameter shaft and is subjected to well over 2,000 lbs on a fairly regular basis. Those bearings are still the original bearings put on in 1975!!!
3. The angle of the shaft is also nearly irrelevent as the purpose for pillow block bearings is to make up the difference of not being able to get things perfectly aligned. The shaft hole through the center of the bearing allows for a lot of angular movement. In my experience, it really doesn't matter if the shaft is a few degrees off. The bearing surface on the inside of the pillow block is meant to handle a load in a lot of different angles, just so the main load is not side to side.
4. The quality of the grease is a huge key factor to making the bearings last! I personally use and very highly recommend the Amsoil E.P. Moly grease. It works great in this application. The moly in the grease helps make it extremely slick and also coats the bearing surfaces. The moly also protects the bearings in a "run dry" situation, meaning that the bearings are still slick even if the grease has dried up or worked it's way out of the bearing. Though I do not recommend running them dry for any length of time.
I appologize for the lengthy post, but feel it is important to get the information out to my fellow equipment owners/operators. I hope this helps all of you in your quest for less maintenance and better proffit.
I am currently working on retrofitting a Lombardini diesel engine in place of my old 20 hp Honda on my vermeer sc252. I replaced the bearings on the grinder shortly after I bought it and put the Baldor/Dodge bearings on. The bearings on the jack shaft were a simple direct replacement. The bearings on the grinding wheel took a small amount of grinding to make them fit. I will get the part numbers for these bearings later this week and will get back to you with them. Have a great day and happy grinding
pillow block bearing part numbers
I finally made it back in to IBT to pick up my belts and got the part numbers for the pillow block bearings that I am using on my equipment.
They are as follows...
1 1/4---- P2B-SC-104
1 1/2---- P2B-SC-108
These bearings are not cheap... But they are very high quality.. they run approx. $125 a piece..
The main belts coming from the engine to the jackshaft needed to be replaced.. the belts I got are the carlisle brand. The reason I use those belts is because they don't need as much tension to keep them from slipping for those that are worried about having too much tension on the crankshaft..
The part number for the belts is...A65 super II.. the IBT part number is 00865004484.
I hope this helps everyone out.
I finally made it back in to IBT to pick up my belts and got the part numbers for the pillow block bearings that I am using on my equipment.
They are as follows...
1 1/4---- P2B-SC-104
1 1/2---- P2B-SC-108
These bearings are not cheap... But they are very high quality.. they run approx. $125 a piece..
The main belts coming from the engine to the jackshaft needed to be replaced.. the belts I got are the carlisle brand. The reason I use those belts is because they don't need as much tension to keep them from slipping for those that are worried about having too much tension on the crankshaft..
The part number for the belts is...A65 super II.. the IBT part number is 00865004484.
I hope this helps everyone out.
Are the bearings all the same dimensions and do they bolt right on like stock ones or do you need to modify?
The 1 1/4 bearings are a direct replacement. The 1 1/2 need a small amount of modification to the 252. You will need to grind about 1/4 inch out around the shaft to make it clear and place a washer or two under the bolts that hold the bottom belt cover on. The bolts are the ones on top of the hinged piece.
My lower cutter wheel bearings run cool the top jackshaft bearing run hot I have tried too many times to get them in parallel and I cant get them any better. Do any of your bearings run hot? What do you think this is?
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