Want a bigger firewood saw - 4 choices

[kingOFgEEEks]

I am burning for the first year in this house. I am on track to burn about 10 cords, by my figuring (I have burned about 10 8' pickup loads so far, and by my math, each load is about 1/2 cord). I might have to go see the Dolmar for myself, but if the local Dolmar place goes under, how hard would it be to find another one?

 

[kingOFgEEEks]

372xp

Best saw in the lineup tried and true
Aside from the 576 . Why not consider a 562xp it would handily out cut a stihl 310 in big wood . Ergo design it weighs only 12 pounds and revs to the moon

I want to have a saw that can comfortably wear a 24" bar, and maybe even a 28" sometime in the future. Our local supply is dense hardwood - hard maple, cherry, some ash, beech/birch, etc., so I don't want to overload whatever saw I end up with. Would a 562 be able to do that?

 

[Whitespider]

Just to be honest I'm a Stihl guy, so out'a pure bias I'm gonna' ignore the other choices... it-is-what-it-is.
And to be even more honest... I don't really care for any of the Stihl saws with the "MS" designation.

Since I'm not sold on the M-Tronic thing, before I'd buy a 441 I'd buy a 461... a bit more displacement, a bit more HP, and the same weight (shrug)
But... to pull a 24 inch bar I wouldn't even consider a 70cc class saw, I'd go 60cc class. The 362 has enough power to pull 24 inches, it has the M-Tronic thing and all the other features of the 441 (except that "Caring for Nature - Reduced Emissions" silliness), plus you get a saw "made in the USA" and 2 pounds lighter (I'd be running a 20 inch bar on it, but have a second 24 inch to use only when the extra length was needed).

Now, since you added the 28 inch bar while I was typing, I'd go with the 461 (over the 441)... if I felt I needed and could justify a saw 'n' bar that size for making personal firewood.
Are you running a chainsaw related business??
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[kingOFgEEEks]

Not a business. Just personal use firewood, although in my opinion 10 cords a year is a lot, even though I know many

To be clear, I don't NEED a bigger saw. But time is money, and my time is limited, between work and raising 3 girls under age 5. And I have the cash, so why not go for the biggest saw I think I will be handy, but not overkill.

 

[computeruser]

You already have a Stihl and have a good local dealer, right? Seems pretty straight-forward to me. 441 or 461 should do fine. You can run the same bars, chains, and buy your parts at the same source.

Sometimes we over think this stuff. Any of those saws will competently pull a 24-28" bar, and will let you gnaw away at 40" trunk pieces at a tolerable pace, so you can technically buy any of them and do fine. But I do think there is a value to sticking with one brand for your "work" saws. If you want to branch out later, great, but for a guy with two saws trying to put up firewood, I'd stick with the same brand powerhead.

 

[svk]

But... to pull a 24 inch bar I wouldn't even consider a 70cc class saw, I'd go 60cc class.

*

I've got to disagree with you there. Even 18" bar in hardwood with a 60 cc saw to me feels slow. A 60cc class will pull a 24" just fine but a 70 will do it better. Comparing my experience with a 2165 to a 362, the 362 has a .19 HP advantage but still a lot less than any of the 70's . But that's just me.

 

[longbowch]

As far as bars go, I would recommend the 28" ES lite. Same weight as a 20" . Imo it makes the 24" kind of a waste. With the bigger felling spikes of the "R" version 441, the working length bar is only about 25 1/2 inches.

 

[Whitespider]

Even 18" bar in hardwood with a 60 cc saw to me feels slow. A 60cc class will pull a 24" just fine but a 70 will do it better.

If better means making a cut faster with the bar buried... I won't argue. But I will question whether-or-not it's worth the added cost, noise, fuel/oil consumption and especially weight for the average firewood hack. I routinely run a 20 inch bar on my 50cc saw, I've also owned and used 60cc, 70cc, and even larger saws with a 20 inch bar... I don't recall them being that much faster in the cut. If I was cutting big wood hour-after-hour, day-after-day, I'd look at it differently. Typically my 16 inch bar handles the vast majority of the cuttin', even the vast majority of a big tree. And then, the time spent with the 20 inch bar completely buried is relatively small... that (completely buried bar) time would be even less with a 24 inch.

I'm only questioning the rationalization of a larger, noisier, more costly, and especially heaver saw for the firewood hack. Don't misunderstand me... if a fella' just wants one I won't criticize. But don't try rationalizing it to me, I'll just laugh at ya'. I mean, c'mon, I'm a guy also... I've got "stuff" simply because I wanted it. Heck, I've bought stuff I ain't never used just because I wanted it (b'sides, it looks cool mounted on the bench, sittin' on the shelf, or hangin' on the wall ). I bought a ShopSmith... I've never taken it out'a the drill press mode. I bought a tire changer... I've used it a couple of times, but I got by with a pair of tire spoons before. I asked for a scroll saw for Christmas a couple years back... it's still in the box. I bought a sheet metal brake some number of years ago just because I thought I should have one... didn't even bother to assemble it until I built the "stovace". I bought a new pressure washer two years ago... not sure why, now I have two. Just last weekend I found a sawzall in the back of a cupboard out in the shop, still in the box, never used... I thought I had three, not four. I almost bought a bulldozer last summer... thank the lord my wife was there to slap me. The list is never-ending...

He who dies with the most toys wins... I get that... just don't expect me to believe it's something else... save that for the wife.
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[Whitespider]

I don't NEED a bigger saw. I have the cash, so why not?

The quote above has been chopped 'n' cropped.
Those are the only words you would have needed to use... I get that
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[kingOFgEEEks]

Yeah, I mean, come on, people have cut hundreds of thousands of cords of firewood with 33cc homeowner grade clamshell saws, and been fine. **

But there is no doubt that a bigger, more powerful saw will cut the big stuff more quickly. And by that justification, maybe I should just go buy an 066/660 or a 395XP. But, in my opinion, the options I am considering add little or no weight, and a noticeable step up in power, compared to the saw I am running now. And if fuel consumption is an issue, I'll still have the MS310 for backup/smaller stuff. I might even throw a 16" bar on it to make it handle better, although it does wear the 20" fairly well.

It's a toy, although a toy I will at least use on a regular basis.

That being said, I value everyone's input. I hadn't even thought about the 046/460/461 line, so that is an appreciated addition to the list.



**(this statistic completely fabricated by me)

 

[Whitespider]

**(this statistic completely fabricated by me)

Well... it sounded good to me... I'm a believer‼
*

 

[zogger]

Yeah, I mean, come on, people have cut hundreds of thousands of cords of firewood with 33cc homeowner grade clamshell saws, and been fine. **

But there is no doubt that a bigger, more powerful saw will cut the big stuff more quickly. And by that justification, maybe I should just go buy an 066/660 or a 395XP. But, in my opinion, the options I am considering add little or no weight, and a noticeable step up in power, compared to the saw I am running now. And if fuel consumption is an issue, I'll still have the MS310 for backup/smaller stuff. I might even throw a 16" bar on it to make it handle better, although it does wear the 20" fairly well.

It's a toy, although a toy I will at least use on a regular basis.

That being said, I value everyone's input. I hadn't even thought about the 046/460/461 line, so that is an appreciated addition to the list.



**(this statistic completely fabricated by me)

If it is going to be a stihl, chadiman's dyno results of the 461 makes the decision for you.

 

[svk]

If it is going to be a stihl, chadiman's dyno results of the 461 makes the decision for you.

Please refresh us with those results, didnt it have more power than a 660?

 

[zogger]

Please refresh us with those results, didnt it have more power than a 660?

I'd have to go find that thread again, but it was hanging great, at much less weight in the hands, and in at least one of the graph lines, was better.

I think from the comments from guys who have run them and worked with them, unless you were in big wood about constantly, the 461 would tote the note pretty well.

A member here I cut with a few years ago had a 660, got a 461, and after using them back to back one afternoon here in some big oak we were cutting, put the 660 up for sale.

 

[kingOFgEEEks]

I'm reading the thread now. Great info. http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/sthil-ms-461-vs-stihl-ms-660-dyno-tested.241447/

Thanks @zogger for the info.

 

[stihly dan]

I have the 362ms and it is the most used go to saw. For bigger wood I picked up an 038 mag (73cc?) with a 25 bar. Don't really care for it. Seems heavy and slow and loud. Then I got a deal on a 385 xp with a 28 bar. The 85cc makes big wood easy even fun. Personally I think a 2 0r 3 saw plan should be in increments of 20cc.

 

[NH Hunter]

Personally I'd go with the stihl, but would bump up to the 460/461. Seems that you have a solid dealer and that is very important (to me anyway).

Good luck in your decision.

 

[jgoodhart]

I would vote MS 461 if it was a option. I use a 036 in the woods to cut down and limb trees and a 046 to buck them up at the wood shed, the 046 makes short work of it. I also like that the bars and chains fit either saw.

 

[Cerran]

I own a MS-440 and a 372 XP and I find myself reaching for the 372 more often than the 440 since I just like the balance a bit better. Both are excellent saws and you really can't go wrong with either.

 

[CTYank]

Just one note of caution about the 441CM: service accessibility sucks, big time. Friend bought one, had some metallic debris back in toward the chamber from the muffler and get caught between piston crown & exh port edge. A few days beyond the 3-month warranty. Dealer would not press his case for claim, AND said something like "It'd cost too much to fix it." Right, buy another.

I got sucked into p&c r&r. Big mistake- Rube Goldberg would be impressed with the intake tract plumbing.

Seems Stihl is not heavy on accessibility; I'd be certain, were I ever to consider one, that the dealer could handle any service, affordably. Given that, no-brainer for me to go for Dolmar or Husqy. Not to mention the warranty coverage, FWIW.