What would cause this?

[7sleeper]

Hey guys,
First off Merry Christmas!
Second, as many of you know, the saw in question is mine. I brought it to Brad to get it woods ported. It runs great. I mill with it frequently and as recently as Monday, the day I left New York to go to KY for the Holidays.

.......and he had completely taken my 441 apart!

Good to hear from you Dan. It's obvious the saw has been well cared for. I'm convinced the only thing wrong with this saw is lean tuning due to the EPA mandated limiter tabs. I'd also recommend 32:1 from now on when milling, 40:1 otherwise. As I mentioned yesterday, I'd tune it as rich as I could when milling, just lean enough to quit 4-stroking under heavy load. I'm laying out your port work now.

Thanks Brad&westspartan for providing such an really interesting thread! Thanks to all contributers this was very informative!

And Merry Christmas to all of you!

Would like to rep you all but the rep points are out at the moment!

7

 

[blsnelling]

have you measured the ring end gap and are they in spec?

.014 and .018

 

[lone wolf]

anyone know the ring end gap for this saw?

 

[Metals406]

anyone know the ring end gap for this saw?

I would guess .008-.010 to start. . . But that's just a guess.

 

[lone wolf]

I would guess .008-.010 to start. . . But that's just a guess.

what you think about the piston and rings being worn causing the blowby?

 

[matt9923]

what you think about the piston and rings being worn causing the blowby?

Go back and read walkers post's.

 

[willsaw4beer]

Good to hear praise for the WoodlandPro synthetic considering I talked my boss into going in on a 5 gal bucket..

:greenchainsaw:

 

[blsnelling]

I've measured quite a few rings and rarely ever see them less than .010, even on new saws. These rings still have the little lines on them, so I'm not concerned. I considered replacing them, but decided otherwise. I gave the cylinder a quick honing after the port work to remove the glaze and marks shown earlier. That will give the rings something to seat on again. All that's left is the muffler mod. Other than that, it's all back together. I'm going to run it some tomorrow and see how it does.

 

[sefh3]

I'm going to run it some tomorrow and see how it does.

And we hope the video will be posted here too.

 

[Andyshine77]

As soon as I looked at the pics I said to myself. Not enough oil, too lean carb setting= too much heat. Lakeside was a big advocate of 50:1, but even he recommended 32:1 and a super rich carb setting for milling. I really think it's that simple.

 

[the westspartan]

I've measured quite a few rings and rarely ever see them less than .010, even on new saws. These rings still have the little lines on them, so I'm not concerned. I considered replacing them, but decided otherwise. I gave the cylinder a quick honing after the port work to remove the glaze and marks shown earlier. That will give the rings something to seat on again. All that's left is the muffler mod. Other than that, it's all back together. I'm going to run it some tomorrow and see how it does.

WOW Brad, you work fast. I can't wait to see how it does. If you feel good about those rings, then I am with you. If you wanted to put the Stihl rings in it I would have no problem with that either.

I am down here at my parents looking for some wood that needs to be cut, hahahaha. Too bad they live in the suburbs.

 

[stihlboy]

WOW Brad, you work fast. I can't wait to see how it does. If you feel good about those rings, then I am with you. If you wanted to put the Stihl rings in it I would have no problem with that either.

I am down here at my parents looking for some wood that needs to be cut, hahahaha. Too bad they live in the suburbs.

kinda like McDonalds :monkey:

 

[the westspartan]

kinda like McDonalds :monkey:

Hahaha. Only if the people at McDonalds were SUPER into hamburgers and knew the ins and out of all there food and went well beyond what they were asked to do when you order a sandwich. Oh, and they let you hang out and mess with older cool hamburgers and ones that were ported and real fast.

Don't you wish McDonalds was like that?

 

[blsnelling]

Hahaha. Only if the people at McDonalds were SUPER into hamburgers and knew the ins and out of all there food and went well beyond what they were asked to do when you order a sandwich. Oh, and they let you hang out and mess with older cool hamburgers and ones that were ported and real fast.

Don't you wish McDonalds was like that?

Hey Dan, shouldn't you be in bed, lol? I just got home from spending the evening with my parents on the north side of Cincy.

 

[the westspartan]

Hey Dan, shouldn't you be in bed, lol? I just got home from spending the evening with my parents on the north side of Cincy.

I should be, but I have been up goofing around with my family, and on the internet I guess.

 

[Lugnutz]

keep goofin around!! gives me something to read since the neighbor decided to wake the family up at midnight by blading the road...I might add blading very slowly and pissin my dogs off ( I was mad at the dogs till I remembered they are just doin what dogs do..barkin at something that shouldn't be there in the middle of the night ).

 

[rms61moparman]

Hahaha. Only if the people at McDonalds were SUPER into hamburgers and knew the ins and out of all there food and went well beyond what they were asked to do when you order a sandwich. Oh, and they let you hang out and mess with older cool hamburgers and ones that were ported and real fast.

Don't you wish McDonalds was like that?

No,

What I wish is that the Sons-of Sea Hags, lowly pieces of whale dung that they are, that make the corporate decisions at Mc####els would stop funding Sarah Bradys efforts to disarm the American people.
I have not spent a dime at McDumbasstards since I learned of the massive contributions they give to H.C.I. and I do the very best I can to shame and belittle those who I know patronize them, into submission.

Mike

 

[the westspartan]

No,

What I wish is that the Sons-of Sea Hags, lowly pieces of whale dung that they are, that make the corporate decisions at Mc####els would stop funding Sarah Bradys efforts to disarm the American people.
I have not spent a dime at McDumbasstards since I learned of the massive contributions they give to H.C.I. and I do the very best I can to shame and belittle those who I know patronize them, into submission.

Mike

I have no idea why I am still up at this point. I don't eat at McD.s for all sorts of reasons, but I guess we have kinda diverted a solid thread that Brad started.

I am eagerly awaiting what tomorrow brings in the way of Brad testing my saw!!!!! But for now, off to bed. Merry Christmas again everybody.

 

[tdi-rick]

Brad, despite what some guys think its almost impossible to tell anything of value by looking at a plug unless done using the plug chop method. And even then you need a spark plug viewer to see the mixture ring.

Yep, and a new plug at that.

 

[BobL]

Great thread guys.

Coupla ideas to add to the mix.

Cool down needed after milling?
If the 441 runs extra hot especially when milling then a proper cool down period becomes extra critical. With a Temp gauge on my 880 I note that it takes a full 2 minutes after milling to come come down to idle temp. If the temp is too high it will sit there for a long time cracking lube and caking it onto the hot surfaces. I'm setting up my small mill to take my 441 so I'm now thinking Temp gauge for that as well.

Gas:
If even a few ounces of bad/sour batch are left in the can then adding any new fresh stuff will makie go off faster and continue to go off every time more is added. Every time I go milling I dump the residual (yet two stroke mix and all) into the subaru and start with completely fresh gas and mix.

Milling mix. I'm using 38 +/- 2 : 1 on my saws. < 30:1 makes me feel sick and covers my chaps with black greasy gunk that I cannot wash out.

I don't think it's just one thing but a combination of several factors.