Whats going on with Stihl?

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Ive been visiting a son and DIL in Rogers, Arkansas this weekend, on my way home as I type. Went to an Atwoods farm store. They had plenty of saws. Personally saw 261's, 250, 251, 311. Thought the 250's should be obsolete but they had at least two. I was only interested in the 3pk. files, $4.50 each. Back at home they cost $6.79 -$7.50ish. They had plenty of saws, I just didnt look at all of them being a Husky guy and all.
 
I work for the largest global packaging company (food & pharmaceutical) as a corporate engineering senior manager, which also happens to be one of the largest consumers of polymer based resins. Those resins are post-refining petroleum by-products, sourced via both domestic (CONUS) and global refining.

Covid was already hitting resin production hard due to workforce reductions that shut entire refinery complexes down. Logistics and trucking companies were hit in the same manner.

The plastics manufacturers suffered from lower available employees and plant shutdowns to disinfect, which included extruder runouts and product disposal. Anyone with any knowledge of layered resin and extrusion processes, whether co-ex, blown film, blowmilding, cast extrusion, or sheet thermoforming, also knows shutting down and starting up those lines is a labor intensive and time consuming process. And if not done right, whether due to poor resin quality or key employees out on Covid leave, requires that the line shutdowns, cleanups, and startups begin all over again.

Do a little critical thinking and root cause analysis, you will eventually ask the same question those in manufacturing already have - why would a slight disruption in the supply chain have such a drastic impact on society as a whole?

J.I.T. - "just in time" manufacturing. Based on government tax laws and regulations, companies are charged taxes for products in their plants, i.e. inventory (resins, raw materials, spare parts, etc), wip (partially completed products), and final assembly finished goods. Which led us to J.I.T. - minimizing the amount of raw materials, spare parts, and finished goods in the supply chain. This leads to higher profit margins and EBIT for companies, and forces them to "make to order", using sales forecasting and assumptions based on prior year seasonal changes. So they end up with smaller finished goods on the market.

So Covid impact was the first negative input to the manufacturing supply chain. And a significant one at that, I might add.

Then the hardest winter storm to hit Texas, Louisiana, and Oklahoma in the last 130 years, occurred when Covid was already hitting the raw material supply chain very hard. And where are the majority of the domestically produced resins originating? Yep, you guessed it - Texas refineries, Louisiana refineries, and Oklahoma refineries. Oklahoma and Louisiana were able to get back online relatively quickly due to more effective power grids. Texas on the other hand, combined with their un-regulated energy market and very poor decisions on the windmills, natural gas compressor pump purchases they've made over the years, ended up with power outages in excess of 2 weeks, followed by additional rolling blackouts. Some of our plants are running day by day because the resin producers can't keep up.

As I said before, we make food and pharmaceutical packaging. We swing a big hammer on the plastic resin market. A real big hammer. And these resin suppliers are telling us to pound sand and declaring 'Force Majeure'.

There is a basic hierarchy of needs that prioritizes what companies will be 'triaged' to keep online. In the grand scheme of things, food and medical supplies will take priority over TVs, appliances, automotive components, as well as chainsaws and outdoor power tools.

Is is stupid? Absolutely. We've voted for politicians who have legislated tax policies that have forced companies and manufacturers to avoid inventory tax penalties by keeping less stock on hand, or even worse, relocating that manufacturing outside the US and Europe.

So, just as most of our problems in life, this is self induced.
 
I work for the largest global packaging company (food & pharmaceutical) as a corporate engineering senior manager, which also happens to be one of the largest consumers of polymer based resins. Those resins are post-refining petroleum by-products, sourced via both domestic (CONUS) and global refining.

Covid was already hitting resin production hard due to workforce reductions that shut entire refinery complexes down. Logistics and trucking companies were hit in the same manner.

The plastics manufacturers suffered from lower available employees and plant shutdowns to disinfect, which included extruder runouts and product disposal. Anyone with any knowledge of layered resin and extrusion processes, whether co-ex, blown film, blowmilding, cast extrusion, or sheet thermoforming, also knows shutting down and starting up those lines is a labor intensive and time consuming process. And if not done right, whether due to poor resin quality or key employees out on Covid leave, requires that the line shutdowns, cleanups, and startups begin all over again.

Do a little critical thinking and root cause analysis, you will eventually ask the same question those in manufacturing already have - why would a slight disruption in the supply chain have such a drastic impact on society as a whole?

J.I.T. - "just in time" manufacturing. Based on government tax laws and regulations, companies are charged taxes for products in their plants, i.e. inventory (resins, raw materials, spare parts, etc), wip (partially completed products), and final assembly finished goods. Which led us to J.I.T. - minimizing the amount of raw materials, spare parts, and finished goods in the supply chain. This leads to higher profit margins and EBIT for companies, and forces them to "make to order", using sales forecasting and assumptions based on prior year seasonal changes. So they end up with smaller finished goods on the market.

So Covid impact was the first negative input to the manufacturing supply chain. And a significant one at that, I might add.

Then the hardest winter storm to hit Texas, Louisiana, and Oklahoma in the last 130 years, occurred when Covid was already hitting the raw material supply chain very hard. And where are the majority of the domestically produced resins originating? Yep, you guessed it - Texas refineries, Louisiana refineries, and Oklahoma refineries. Oklahoma and Louisiana were able to get back online relatively quickly due to more effective power grids. Texas on the other hand, combined with their un-regulated energy market and very poor decisions on the windmills, natural gas compressor pump purchases they've made over the years, ended up with power outages in excess of 2 weeks, followed by additional rolling blackouts. Some of our plants are running day by day because the resin producers can't keep up.

As I said before, we make food and pharmaceutical packaging. We swing a big hammer on the plastic resin market. A real big hammer. And these resin suppliers are telling us to pound sand and declaring 'Force Majeure'.

There is a basic hierarchy of needs that prioritizes what companies will be 'triaged' to keep online. In the grand scheme of things, food and medical supplies will take priority over TVs, appliances, automotive components, as well as chainsaws and outdoor power tools.

Is is stupid? Absolutely. We've voted for politicians who have legislated tax policies that have forced companies and manufacturers to avoid inventory tax penalties by keeping less stock on hand, or even worse, relocating that manufacturing outside the US and Europe.

So, just as most of our problems in life, this is self induced.
While I agree with the majority of what you said, J.I.T. is still relatively new logistically in the U.S. The forces that caused the creation of that concept are not quite what you have laid out. Not originally.

We were informed this morning that Toyota and Honda schedules are going to be greatly reduced for the near future.
 
Wait until the silicon chip issue starts spilling into other markets outside automotive. Seat foam too (mattresses and couches are about to skyrocket in price).

Everything right now is at a premium due to Covid...resin issue with stihl but I'll guarantee on new FI products electronics and even just getting production streams launched and consistent have been a challenge.

Inflation here we come
 
While I agree with the majority of what you said, J.I.T. is still relatively new logistically in the U.S. The forces that caused the creation of that concept are not quite what you have laid out. Not originally.

We were informed this morning that Toyota and Honda schedules are going to be greatly reduced for the near future.
JIT was implemented in various companies I've worked for going back 25+ years, so I wouldn't call that relatively new. It is a fully matured concept in companies that have their process squared away. I agree that the forces that caused the creation of the JIT concept are not directly related to the tax implications, but rather the push to implement more efficient and effective manufacturing (I didn't want to completely delve into advanced manufacturing and business management concepts so I went with the simpler description). The big companies embraced the JIT concept to remove waste from the 'system' but once the tax implications became widely known, the majority of companies embraced it as a tax avoidance rather than a efficiency improvement, because if not managed properly, it is definitely NOT an efficiency gain.

Large corporations create revenue, which creates jobs, which create personal income tax, which creates consumer spending, which moves that revenue through the economy. Once a country starts taxing companies to death, the trickle down effect slows or minimizes, resulting in fewer jobs, less consumer spending, less personal income tax paid, and results in a net loss of revenues for said country. It's amazing to me how little knowledge governments and legislatures actually have on the subject of Economics 101. Scary is a more apt description.
 
Wait until the silicon chip issue starts spilling into other markets outside automotive. Seat foam too (mattresses and couches are about to skyrocket in price).

Everything right now is at a premium due to Covid...resin issue with stihl but I'll guarantee on new FI products electronics and even just getting production streams launched and consistent have been a challenge.

Inflation here we come
Yup. Better have your finances squared away in low risk investments or better yet, mason jars. We're about to see the greatest loss of wealth in human history.
 
JIT was implemented in various companies I've worked for going back 25+ years, so I wouldn't call that relatively new.
Relative to the creation of the system in post WW2 Japan. Born from what they lacked(space) vs. what they had an abundance of(labor). Other advantages regarding re-work and model updating were realized later. The fit for our economy and resources has been shaky at best, and having worked for different places I'm sure you've seen how a cookie cutter approach to J.I.T. does not work regionally or even locally.
 
Relative to the creation of the system in post WW2 Japan. Born from what they lacked(space) vs. what they had an abundance of(labor). Other advantages regarding re-work and model updating were realized later. The fit for our economy and resources has been shaky at best, and having worked for different places I'm sure you've seen how a cookie cutter approach to J.I.T. does not work regionally or even locally.
Understood. No disagreement on when and where it was created nor why. As said before, I was making an attempt at brevity for the sake of a macro view of the current market condition. Would you prefer that I take a micro approach and teach a doctorate level class in manufacturing concepts?

A cookie cutter approach to any concept is poor implementation and understanding of said concept. The same can be said for Six Sigma, Lean, PdM, RBAM, WCOM, TPM, TQM, etc, etc ,etc. Not because the system or concept is ineffective in and of itself, but rather lackadaisical implementation and pure laziness on the part of management.
 
Inflation here we come

This has been coming for a long time. 28+ trillion is nothing to ignore. Of course I thought that at 5, 10, 20 trillion also. Where, when and how remains to be seen, but it is straight ahead. I see Bitcoin as a by-product of this inflation expectation, and Game Stop, AMC. Some real crazy sheit happens before it all crumbles. Urban areas will become some thing real scary.

Get your toilet paper now. :crazy2:
 
Understood. No disagreement on when and where it was created nor why. As said before, I was making an attempt at brevity for the sake of a macro view of the current market condition. Would you prefer that I take a micro approach and teach a doctorate level class in manufacturing concepts?
You do you. I think what caught my attention was the attempt to blame big gov as it's origin. I know better, and hate the mfers too, but that was disingenuous at best..
 
Here is the run down at my shop for the past year.
500i : have been shipped about 25 of them usually 2-4 at a time. They are already all sold before we even get them in as we have a list of customers a mile long waiting for them
461s and 462s: for a long time we had neither in stock for months. Just got 8 462s and 10 461s in the last couple orders.
362s : didn’t have any for 6+ months got 4 in a couple weeks ago.
261s: same as 362s but got a ton of them in last month
661s have been out forever. Got 4 661 non CMs in and we sold them in like an hour to 2 of our logging outfit customers.
391s 311s and 291s were out of them for 6+ months. Got a couple 311s in last order and that’s it.
251s and 271s same boat but recently got some in. Not a lot though
250s. Before Covid really slowed everything down the owner ordered a ton of 250s and we have had them most of time. Just got some more in recently as well
170s and 171s have come in drips and drabs
We don’t sell 180s or 211s

Husqvarna hasn’t been as bad but as of right now we have no 395s 390s 372s 555s. We have 572s 365s 562s 565s 550s 545s
On the home owner side we have no 455s or 460s but we did have them for a while. We only have 450s. None of the smaller saws.

Things seem to be getting better. For the last month each order we get has made us happy and givin us some stock. We just need to get a good order with 500is and 661s.
 
I got a new 261 last month. The dealer put our names on a list saying they were getting 15 saws in quarterly this year. I guess dealers are hanging on to parts for shop service as they even had a chainsaw bar on back order when I asked. Parts are in short supply for the dirt bikes as well.
 
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