Yikes! Not so tight!!!

[MasterBlaster]

I was looking at an upcoming cable job to be done on a large live oak. The tree splits into three big forks at 20'. Each of those forks become other forks.
One of these main forks is beginning to split. My plan is to lighten the two limbs, and cable it with one cable. The split will probably close by itself when I remove the limbs. The split is maybe 2" wide at it's widest. Then, I plan to set eyebolts thru the tree, and tighten the cable by running the nut down the bolt until the proper tension(NOT TOO MUCH!) is achieved.
Here's the problem; The guy I'm working for INSISTS that I use a come-a-long to get the cable TIGHT, to close the split. I'm trying to convince him that TIGHT is not the way to do it. Just the act of removing the lower, BIG, HEAVY limbs will do the split a world of good, and the cable will just be additional insurance.

He thinks the cable needs to be TIGHT.

I say no.

What say yee-all?

 

[The Best GM]

They should be fairly tight or else the wind will make them streach over time an it could fail, not to to tight

 

[Dadatwins]

Secure the split with as so it does not open up when you are working on the tree. Putting the cables tight enough to close the split in the picture would be wrong in my opinion, put to much pressure on remaining limbs and make them more likely to break off where bolts are drilled in. Putting rod through split to hold it closed might help. I would think putting that main cable in TIGHT would be a mistake, tree needs to maintain some natural movement or it will break up.

 

[NeTree]

You want them tight enough so that the wind can't blow some slack in the cable, which would "slam" the lead when it returns the tention.

No need to overtighten, though. If you're using the right cable for the job, the stretch would be minimal.

When installing the eye bolts, make sure you drill the holes parallel to the line of pull, not square with the limb itself. Countersink the nuts and washers to sound wood, instead of placing the washer against the outer bark. This is done for three reasons: 1) Neater appearance 2) growing wood won't "push" the bolt through and increase the tension 3) Faster wound closure.

If possible, affix a sturdy metal tag clearly stating the date the cable was installed, and the interval it should be inspected, along with the company that installed it (in your case, the outfit you subbed for).

Cables are subject to annual mainainance, and checking the tention would be a part of that. You did explain to him that it needs to be looked after occasionally, right?

As the branch tips grow up and out, replacement and/or additional cables should be placed higher up.
I recommend yearly for the first three years, and then every other year after that.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by Dadatwins
I would think putting that main cable in TIGHT would be a mistake, tree needs to maintain some natural movement or it will break up.

THATS what I'm talking about!

Erik, I know how to install a cable properly. The tightness is what I'm addressing.

 

[The Best GM]

RIGHT ON MASTER BLASTER RIGHT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EVERY TIME SOMEONE ASKS A QUESTION SOME ONE ELSE COMES ON AND GIVES A WHOLE LESSON!! RIGHT ON MASTER BLASTER

 

[The Best GM]

And they do need to be tight. Use yoiur best judgement, they WILL bounce too much if they are not SNUG. I've fixed lots of old cableing jobs, and to be real, I wouldn't put my name on it, you gotta leave some room for the posibility of a bad client.

 

[NeTree]

Butch, is he going to climb up there and check how tight you made it?

 

[NeTree]

Originally posted by The Best GM
RIGHT ON MASTER BLASTER RIGHT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EVERY TIME SOMEONE ASKS A QUESTION SOME ONE ELSE COMES ON AND GIVES A WHOLE LESSON!! RIGHT ON MASTER BLASTER

]



Better too much info than too little.

 

[The Best GM]

netree, you could take that last statement and run with it, this time, this question, it was too much. You see it as being safe, but I give master blaster a little more credit than you, what we are saying is, telling people to much is a little insulting don't you think?

 

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by netree
Butch, is he going to climb up there and check how tight you made it?

No, but he will be there. I just want some feedback so this guy won't freak out when I don't make it as tight as a high-wire act.

And too much info is better than not enough.

 

[spacemule]

Originally posted by The Best GM
what we are saying is, telling people to much is a little insulting don't you think?

I personally have never taken offense when someone is sincerely trying to help me, and if you'll read MB's post I'll think you'll see he wasn't offended either. Offense is taken, however, when the tone is one of superiority. It's been my experience that people who take offense as easily as you seem to have an inferiorty complex and feel that they have something to prove. And, by the way, I think MB can take care of himself without you sticking up for him. You wouldn't want to insult his intelligence now, would you?

 

[The Best GM]

He could have easily asked if mb would like to know, just cause one askes to pass the dessert doesn't mean the need a lesson on how to make it.

 

[NeTree]

Isn't it past your bedtime GM?

 

[The Best GM]

Bed time?

 

[rmihalek]

before and after

You may be able to instruct the homeowner with a little demonstration of the effects of limbing: show him the gap in the split before you take some limbs off and then after. Hopefully the gap will be sufficiently closed up that he'll see the load reduction due to the limbing may be allow you to reduce the need for extra tight cabling.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Thats the problem, it ain't the owner. It's the tree co owner, he's been doing it over a quarter century.

 

[MasterBlaster]

We're trying to not use rods because where it needs to be done it is between 4 and 5 feet thick. It would be a super PITA to do, and the customer would have to ultimately pay the price.
That IS the best way when it is needed, I just don't think it is mandatory in this situation.

My main concern is that he wants me to get it so tight it will 'close' the split. He thinks tighter is better.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Funny, I just read thru the ISA BMP's on cabling (worth $5 y'all!)and it didn't say anything about tightness.


I agree the crack should be closed, and mb from the look of the drawing I'd lighten the lower branch with a polesaw from the roof before climbing.
Question--is there any feasible way to *lightly* reduce the upper, remaining leads? Tough to climb out there maybe but...Removing the lower leads entirely (isn't there a good upright lateral to cut to? where's your pic mb you camera hound?)removes a lot of damping effect and whole-tree stability, doesn't it? Reducing just 10% of the upper ones can lessen the stress on that split a whole lot.

O and y'all stop cluttering these threads with scolding each other willya? Take it easy on my Superior GM, he'll mellow with time.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I'm with Brian, NE's approach is contradictory to ANSI cabling standards.
Use a come along to pull the top together, set a through rod or two, then release come along and adjust cable so it's not tight.
Don't countersink for the washers.