MS 441....Are they panning out?

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These responses show how different owner, users, and shops can have very different advice to give. My most local dealer said he's sold "tons" of 441s and has, so far, had zero come back. He claims that he's had nothing but satsifaction from those who bought them.

The dealers that bad mouth them likely don't know how to properly tune a 441 let alone work on one. That's my take on the issue anyway.

Even at good dealers bad stuff happens. I was talking to my local Stihl dealer a couple of months ago, and he started telling me about a new 250 that came in with a toasted top end. I asked him what happened? He quickly replied, I wasn't in the shop at the time, and I didn't set up the saw, my sister did, even though she knows she's not suppose to. Needless to say the carb was set way to lean, and he had eat the bad cylinder.
 
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This thread illustrates the differnce between the Husky and stihl owners. It seems like the husky owner values features and performance more than the Stihl owner. The Stihl owners seem to have an unrealistic value for tradition. They seem to oppose any progress, whether it is advancement or regulation. Husky has been ahead of Stihl one to two years in every catagory. I don't know how long Stihl can rest on its reputation. There are several asian saws that I would rate as more reliable than Stihl or Husky
ZG
 
A little more fuel for the fire

The good news....

The good news for the MS441 is that is right there with the MS460 across the board. It’s a little fatter overall about the same weight, maybe a hair heavier keeping in mind the MS460 has a full wrap bar and the full clutch cover with dual spikes and roller chain catcher, and it will cut right on the heels of the 460. All while having better air filtration with less vibration to the user and wasting less fuel.

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The bad news……

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The bad news is (as was mentioned) the MS441 was meant to replace the 044/MS440 and the 044 is a much lighter (on the scales, but much more so in the hands) and more nimble package. Don’t get me wrong the 441 will out cut the MS440 pretty much in every situation, then again so will the 046/MS460, but for some reason even the MS460 was never able to dethrone the 044 at the top of the 70cc heap. I think the 044/MS440 was just about the perfect balance of power to get the job done and light weight handling to not kill you in the process…. From that standpoint the 441 fails miserably as a replacement IMO.

Overall the 441 is a nice saw and fits in nicely among it’s predecessors

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but it’s place in history is probably gonna be Stihls “gateway” to the new world.
 
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Timber fallers

The timber guys I know will not have anything to do with a 441.

They don't like the extra weight of the 441 compared to its performance. (They, and I, are stocking up on all the 044/440 generation stuff they can)

The AV means less control of the bar to them. Longer bars weigh a bit and they droop at an angle with the AV. (Although you can get used to that.)

They air filtration is nice but most of these guys aren't cutting timber anymore, they're working on fires and they'd just as soon go with the Max Flo.
The Husky style filtration does great for larger particulates but doesn't catch the soot and bark dust that are more common on fires.

=================

I just got a Husky 266 for $200 (160 compression - OK) and I still have some things to fix (bar/chain/clutch side cover) but for my money I'd much rather have it than a 441.

-----------------------

{Fuel efficiency is an issue with the fire crews but not the fallers. So the 441 is doing OK with fire crew evals.}
 
Just bought 2 70cc saws for work the other day. Thought long and hard, did my research, and ran several saws... ended up with a matched pair of 460's. Why? Because I KNOW I can maintain them. 441 is an oddball, a freak, an new idea... I imagine that it will be the standard a few years from now, and I will have been well-familiarized with them by then. Meanwhile, I have a fleet of 20 or so saws to maintain, and I don't really have time to learn the ins-and-outs of a new design. Ask me again in five years and my opinion may well be different. Hell, I may be a Jonny or Dolmar or Husky guy by then. I just know that now, with my fleet of 260/036/361/044/460/660 saws, I know how to work on everything, because their design philosophy is VERY similar. I am not resistant to change -- rather, I am resistant to delay. A broken saw needs fixed NOW and I don't want to learn another until I have to.
 
Just bought 2 70cc saws for work the other day. Thought long and hard, did my research, and ran several saws... ended up with a matched pair of 460's. Why? Because I KNOW I can maintain them. 441 is an oddball, a freak, an new idea... I imagine that it will be the standard a few years from now, and I will have been well-familiarized with them by then. Meanwhile, I have a fleet of 20 or so saws to maintain, and I don't really have time to learn the ins-and-outs of a new design. Ask me again in five years and my opinion may well be different. Hell, I may be a Jonny or Dolmar or Husky guy by then. I just know that now, with my fleet of 260/036/361/044/460/660 saws, I know how to work on everything, because their design philosophy is VERY similar. I am not resistant to change -- rather, I am resistant to delay. A broken saw needs fixed NOW and I don't want to learn another until I have to.

You would be amazed at how easy they are to work on. I was a die hard 440/460 guy before I got a 441 also. Now the 044/441/460 play well together and I can tear 'em all apart easy.
 
Borrowed and improved upon:cheers: The filtration, that is.

+1 and for springs, the 441 has a much more solid feel than the huskys I have ran. huskys have always had a sloppy feeling like the a/v is coming apart, must be the beefier springs on the 441.:confused: Either way, I'd rather run a 441 but do prefer the rubber mounts on my 044 and 460.:D
 
but for some reason even the MS460 was never able to dethrone the 044 at the top of the 70cc heap. I think the 044/MS440 was just about the perfect balance of power to get the job done and light weight handling to not kill you in the process.

Amen to that!:clap: There is not another 70cc saw like the 044/440 imo, just a plain bad *** package of power and weight.:chainsaw:
 
:) I hate to do something unusual, like drag this thread kicking and screaming back to the OP's original question....but

We have a couple of 441s with 32" bars that we use for landing saws. They're about a year old and they've been used hard. Clean fuel and clean filters are about all the maintenance they get and they're run by a variety of people, some good, some not. What I'm saying is that, in direct opposite to most home owner 441s, these saws get abused every day.

We've had absolutely no problem with them. None. Zero trouble.

Are they the saw the 460 is? No. I've run both and the 460 is just a better saw for the work that I need it to do. The 460 has a little more grunt and they're also very reliable. We got a deal on the 441s and for price I couldn't see turning them down. I do notice though that if there's a 460 and a 441 on the landing the chaser will usually go for the 460...especially if there's heavy bucking to do.
But if you're not into heavy production cutting and you can get a good price on one, a 441, especially for just firewood cutting and such, should be fine for you. :cheers:

Thanks for getting the thread back on track! I didn't make that comment to give anyone a sore A$$. The simple fact is that if you would ask every company to stick to their own designs and inovations then we would have very antiquated products of any sort. Just imagine if John Deere had stuck with the old 2 cylinder engines that defined them as Poppin Johnnies! As a matter of fact they were obsolete and antiquated long before the were out of production. All we have today is a direct result of manufacturers using Henry Ford's principle of streamlined production called the Assembly Line, I'm sure he might have got it from someone else, but he used the idea on a large scale and is given the credit.
Wikidepia credits Dolmar with the first portable gasoline chainsaw, so I guess all the bickering becomes a moot point after the fact! I could go on all day about who stole what from who, but the fact is that the products we have today are a result of that industrial espianauge.
Thanks for the great info, I will wait till sawdust days in October and try out both saws. JJ
 
This thread illustrates the differnce between the Husky and stihl owners. It seems like the husky owner values features and performance more than the Stihl owner. The Stihl owners seem to have an unrealistic value for tradition. They seem to oppose any progress, whether it is advancement or regulation. Husky has been ahead of Stihl one to two years in every catagory. I don't know how long Stihl can rest on its reputation. There are several asian saws that I would rate as more reliable than Stihl or Husky
ZG

If Sawtroll is right one the money and everyone else can agree that the 441 has many features in common with the newer Husqvarna saws then your argument about Stihl not modernizing their saws or opposing progress as you put it, dose not hold water. This didn't have to be a Stihl v.s. Husky debate, the question I asked was weather or not the 441 had been a success and how it stacked up against the 460. I never mentioned Husky in there anywhere. THERE IS NO HUSKY DEALERS NEAR ME! They are not an option in my mind if I have to drive to Timbucktoo just to get one or parts for one. JJ
 
A little more fuel for the fire

The good news....

The good news for the MS441 is that is right there with the MS460 across the board. It’s a little fatter overall about the same weight, maybe a hair heavier keeping in mind the MS460 has a full wrap bar and the full clutch cover with dual spikes and roller chain catcher, and it will cut right on the heels of the 460. All while having better air filtration with less vibration to the user and wasting less fuel.

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Those videos and pics. were great! Thanks. How do the air cover clips come off? Do you have to take them over center with a scrench or can you do it by hand? JJ
 
The 441 is the best saw made by Stihl

I am big fan of the 441, and I think they have proven themselves well. Stihl got it right with the 441 and I am excited for the strato replacements for the 90+ cc saws.

When the 441 first came out, everyone got all bent out of shape b/c older strato designs with reed valves didn't fair well. Stihl resolved this issue with direct porting, but the quick, uninformed opinions seemed to persist. People whom never ran the saw also thought it was too heavy, underpowered, too hard to work on and couldn't be modified.

The 441 is underpowered...really? Maybe to those who have not run one... I have posted plenty of video running the 441 against modified and stock 440's, 460's and 660's. With a 24" bar, you cannot tell a lick of difference in cuts times. You have to max out the saw with the 32" bar before you get a significant difference in cutting times. Again, this is 32" of bar fully buried in hardwood. My opinion, if you are cutting that big, then you should be using a 90 or 120cc saw anyways. The 441 holds its own on power. And, it does so with less fuel, meaning the 441 is putting out more power per unit of fuel, which in and of itself is a great improvement in saw technology (and fuel and oil savings).

The 441 is too heavy...really? This ain't no limbing saw. Big saws are heavy. We are debating a few ounces here. Man up and get over it...

The 441 is too hard to work on... really? Check this thread; several dealers and techs have made comments to this effect. This argument just doesn't hold up.

The 441 doesn't take to mods...Really? Did you try? Check out slinger's video. The 441 takes well to mods. Several others (peacock, slamm, etc.) have done the same and have noticed improvements. This argument doesn't hold water.


Is the 441 better than the 440? 460? In stock form, absolutely. Can you put a BB kit on a 440/460 and have an incredible power to weight ratio? Absolutely. Is that better than the 441? Depends on how you are gauging 'better'. Will the BB's cut faster? yup. Can you cut more than one tree per tank of fuel? nope. Does a second or two in the cut make up for the extra time not cutting b/c you are refilling the saw? Walking to and from the truck? AV gas and sythetic aren't cheap. Many arborists go through 5 gallons of mix a day. Is fuel efficiency important? you bet. Sure, you may cut a million board feet faster per saw, but by the job you will be far behind in time and money. I am not so sure the 441 was meant to be compared against the 440 - they are two different animals.


The reason for the introduction of 441 may be ambiguous, though there are many specious arguments out there. The venerable 044/440 was arguably Stihl's best saw, so it was the best saw for introducing and gaining acceptance of Stihl's new engine technology. Putting the future of the company in an obscure or unpopular saw is suicide for that company. Why change a good thing? EPA, EU, carbon footprint, clean air, tree huggers....doesn't matter. Technology will always improve. The new strato engines put out the same power as old engines with less fuel - it's more efficient. That's the direction of progress. It's what we do when gain knowledge - we apply it. It doesn't matter if its cars, computers, cell phones or chainsaws.

What was the 441 designed to do? What is its purpose? My conjecture is it was to produce a saw with 1) reduced emissions 2) increased fuel economy 3) maintain the same power and torque 4) reduced vibrationa 5) reliability. Does the 441 have reduced emission (aka, air you are breathing while the saw is running)? yep. Does it have the same power and grunt as older generation saws? yep. Does it do more with less fuel? yep. Is it reliable? yep. Is it a smooth running saw? yep. Can those who like to tinker and play still make the saw perform faster? yep.

Sounds to me like Stihl got it right. IMO, yes, they are panning out.
 
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I am big fan of the 441, and I think they have proven themselves well. Stihl got it right with the 441 and I am excited for the strato replacements for the 90+ cc saws.

When the 441 first came out, everyone got all bent out of shape b/c older strato designs with reed valves didn't fair well. Stihl resolved this issue with direct porting, but the quick, uninformed opinions seemed to persist. People whom never ran the saw also thought it was too heavy, underpowered, too hard to work on and couldn't be modified.

The 441 is underpowered...really? Maybe to those who have not run one... I have posted plenty of video running the 441 against modified and stock 440's, 460's and 660's. With a 24" bar, you cannot tell a lick of difference in cuts times. You have to max out the saw with the 32" bar before you get a significant difference in cutting times. Again, this is 32" of bar fully buried in hardwood. My opinion, if you are cutting that big, then you should be using a 90 or 120cc saw anyways. The 441 holds its own on power. And, it does so with less fuel, meaning the 441 is putting out more power per unit of fuel, which in and of itself is a great improvement in saw technology (and fuel and oil savings).

The 441 is too heavy...really? This ain't no limbing saw. Big saws are heavy. We are debating a few ounces here. Man up and get over it...

The 441 is too hard to work on... really? Check this thread; several dealers and techs have made comments to this effect. This argument just doesn't hold up.

The 441 doesn't take to mods...Really? Did you try? Check out slinger's video. The 441 takes well to mods. Several others (peacock, slamm, etc.) have done the same and have noticed improvements. This argument doesn't hold water.


Is the 441 better than the 440? 460? In stock form, absolutely. Can you put a BB kit on a 440/460 and have an incredible power to weight ratio? Absolutely. Is that better than the 441? Depends on how you are gauging 'better'. Will the BB's cut faster? yup. Can you cut more than one tree per tank of fuel? nope. Does a second or two in the cut make up for the extra time not cutting b/c you are refilling the saw? Walking to and from the truck? AV gas and sythetic aren't cheap. Many arborists go through 5 gallons of mix a day. Is fuel efficiency important? you bet. Sure, you may cut a million board feet faster per saw, but by the job you will be far behind in time and money. I am not so sure the 441 was meant to be compared against the 440 - they are two different animals.


The reason for the introduction of 441 may be ambiguous, though there are many specious arguments out there. The venerable 044/440 was arguably Stihl's best saw, so it was the best saw for introducing and gaining acceptance of Stihl's new engine technology. Putting the future of the company in an obscure or unpopular saw is suicide for that company. Why change a good thing? EPA, EU, carbon footprint, clean air, tree huggers....doesn't matter. Technology will always improve. The new strato engines put out the same power as old engines with less fuel - it's more efficient. That's the direction of progress. It's what we do when gain knowledge - we apply it. It doesn't matter if its cars, computers, cell phones or chainsaws.

What was the 441 designed to do? What is its purpose? My conjecture is it was to produce a saw with 1) reduced emissions 2) increased fuel economy 3) maintain the same power and torque 4) reduced vibrationa 5) reliability. Does the 441 have reduced emission (aka, air you are breathing while the saw is running)? yep. Does it have the same power and grunt as older generation saws? yep. Does it do more with less fuel? yep. Is it reliable? yep. Is it a smooth running saw? yep. Can those who like to tinker and play still make the saw perform faster? yep.

Sounds to me like Stihl got it right. IMO, yes, they are panning out.

+1, :agree2::clap::cheers:
 

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