Husqvarna Homeqwner Saw Plastic Construction

[Justsaws]

On the Poulan design in order to check the bolts that hold the modular unit together the unit has to be remove from the pan, on the Husqvarna it does not. Drop a gas tank or pull the module out. There have been some variations on the theme but that would be my opinion.

Beyond saving a step on assembly, 4 fasteners, it also is easier to maintain. Solid win for the "premium" brand.

 

[Gologit]

Philbert is correct. There are many here who clearly have no idea of what goes on in a company that manufactures products, and believe engineers have the freedom to build whatever they want if only they were good enough. You really think engineers are the ones setting the parts cost limits? That's funny. It is usually dictated by management and most of all by customers.

Designing a product requires balancing the needs of a lot of people, and usually someone feels the compromise should have been made differently to optimize it for their particular needs (of the moment).

You are wrong about the "one job and that's to design something that I want and can use to make my business more profitable and my life easier" part.

On the day someone is buying the product they want it to be less expensive.

On the day you are using the product you want it to have the best performance/comfort/ease of use.

After a while you want it to last as long as possible.

On the day something went wrong you want it to be easy to repair.

And that is just one customer - the next one has slightly different tastes, management has limited development budgets, time and parts costs, and marketing/sales has usually neglected to tell the engineers about what the customer actually wants.

As for the whining about product designs - have you ever read the chainsaw forum on AS? Heck, we have become an nation of whiners.

Anyway, the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and I am not ashamed of my work. I don't presume to tell those who spend their careers out in the woods dropping trees how they should be doing their jobs, because it is not my area of expertise and I can't really know how it is done because I haven't lived it. Just as when you read posts by those without experience it jumps right out at you, the same is true for me when I read posts by people whining about this brand or that, or guessing why something is the way it is.

This thread started with me asking about a very specific aspect of saw construction that I was curious about, and wondering if anyone had any specific knowledge about why it was done that way. There was a little relevant discussion, but the thread immediately devolved into intentional disruption and axe-grinding by the usual crowd, along with a few folks volunteering their lack of understanding, so there's not much more to be gained from it.

Hmmmm...this was obviously written by an engineer.

You're right about our expectations though. If we don't hold the engineering community's feet to the fire occasionally they'll design whatever works best for them and not for us.

Case in point...there's a large equipment manufacturer that I no longer have anything to do with because of their attitude toward the product they produce...and the customer that uses it. We bought a loader from them, brand new and state of the art, that spent most of it's time sitting idle while techs chased down the problems that made it useless to me. Electrical, hydraulic, electronic, engine, gearing, tracks...you name it and it was giving us problems.


Sure, it was covered under warranty but warranty doesn't pay for my down time and the resultant lost production. I had it on a two week trial and of the eleven working days it never completed an entire day without a slowdown, a breakdown, or a melt down. We had so many hydraulic fires from chafed wiring bundles and dripping hydraulic fluid that we designated one of the landing rats as the fire bottle guy and kept him on standby.

They finally got a factory rep out to the woods, an engineer of course, and without ever looking at the machine or reviewing the repairs done by the techs, he said " You loggers expect way too much out of the machinery you buy. These things were designed by educated people with engineering credentials and they know what they're doing. You're just going to have to get used to the idea that machinery isn't perfect and that some flaws are to be expected.. We believe that the end user bears a certain responsibility for field testing on the new models we sell."
I have neither the time, the interest or the resources to do "field testing" for a manufacturer.
All I was asking was a machine that would do what it was advertised as being able to do. Apparently I was asking too much.

I told the factory rep to leave. I sent the loader back. When they asked me why I told them why. It was poorly engineered. I'm sure that the engineers had plenty of self serving excuses why that machine was so useless. I'm sure the excuses make sense to the engineers. They just didn't make sense to anyone else.

Are engineers always totally at fault when something isn't right? Of course not. But it's a good place to start looking.

 

[Chris-PA]

On the Poulan design in order to check the bolts that hold the modular unit together the unit has to be remove from the pan, on the Husqvarna it does not. Drop a gas tank or pull the module out. There have been some variations on the theme but that would be my opinion.

Beyond saving a step on assembly, 4 fasteners, it also is easier to maintain. Solid win for the "premium" brand.

It's refreshing to have an actual on topic reply - thank you! When you say check the bolt, do you mean checking them for torque? The Poulan bolts also come through to the bottom, you can torque them just as you do on the Husky. Or did I misunderstand what you meant?

 

[Chris-PA]

Hmmmm...this was obviously written by an engineer.

You're right about our expectations though. If we don't hold the engineering community's feet to the fire occasionally they'll design whatever works best for them and not for us.

Case in point...there's a large equipment manufacturer that I no longer have anything to do with because of their attitude toward the product they produce...and the customer that uses it. We bought a loader from them, brand new and state of the art, that spent most of it's time sitting idle while techs chased down the problems that made it useless to me. Electrical, hydraulic, electronic, engine, gearing, tracks...you name it and it was giving us problems.


Sure, it was covered under warranty but warranty doesn't pay for my down time and the resultant lost production. I had it on a two week trial and of the eleven working days it never completed an entire day without a slowdown, a breakdown, or a melt down. We had so many hydraulic fires from chafed wiring bundles and dripping hydraulic fluid that we designated one of the landing rats as the fire bottle guy and kept him on standby.

They finally got a factory rep out to the woods, an engineer of course, and without ever looking at the machine or reviewing the repairs done by the techs, he said " You loggers expect way too much out of the machinery you buy. These things were designed by educated people with engineering credentials and they know what they're doing. You're just going to have to get used to the idea that machinery isn't perfect and that some flaws are to be expected.. We believe that the end user bears a certain responsibility for field testing on the new models we sell."
I have neither the time, the interest or the resources to do "field testing" for a manufacturer.
All I was asking was a machine that would do what it was advertised as being able to do. Apparently I was asking too much.

I told the factory rep to leave. I sent the loader back. When they asked me why I told them why. It was poorly engineered. I'm sure that the engineers had plenty of self serving excuses why that machine was so useless. I'm sure the excuses make sense to the engineers. They just didn't make sense to anyone else.

Are engineers always totally at fault when something isn't right? Of course not. But it's a good place to start looking.

Well Bob, I am glad there are engineers like that out there. Some of them work for my competition, which is a big help to me. You can't always count on your competition to be incompetent, but we all like a "gimme" once in a while.

Did you by a different loader that you are happy with? Was it designed by an engineer?

 

[Chris-PA]

Here at 84 replies into this thread, I would encourage anyone who reads here to go back to the original post and consider if there was anything even remotely controversial or contentious about it. Then look at what happened to the thread and how it was (clearly intentionally) disrupted and derailed.

 

[Gologit]

Did you by a different loader that you are happy with? Was it designed by an engineer?

Yes, I bought a different loader. Different brand, too. I don't think it was totally designed by engineers though...it worked almost perfectly from day one. Other than scheduled and preventative maintenance it never cost me a dime that it shouldn't have and it never let me down.

I think the engineers must have had some help from people who really knew what a machine should do....tech reps, mechanics, owners, operators...people like that.
The real test was our field mechanic/service guy. He actually liked to work on them and kept bugging me to buy more.

 

[Chris-PA]

Yes, I bought a different loader. Different brand, too. I don't think it was totally designed by engineers though...it worked almost perfectly from day one. Other than scheduled and preventative maintenance it never cost me a dime that it shouldn't have and it never let me down.

I think the engineers must have had some help from people who really knew what a machine should do....tech reps, mechanics, owners, operators...people like that.
The real test was our field mechanic/service guy. He actually liked to work on them and kept bugging me to buy more.

What brand did you buy?

 

[Steve NW WI]

Here at 84 replies into this thread, I would encourage anyone who reads here to go back to the original post and consider if there was anything even remotely controversial or contentious about it. Then look at what happened to the thread and how it was (clearly intentionally) disrupted and derailed.

I've watched this whole thread, even added my thoughts (on and off topic) in one post. I'd say the problem isn't in the question the thread asks, but in your attitude toward opinions that don't match yours. It's not as loudly on display in this thread as others, but it's there, and guys like thomas1 are drawn to it.

Changing your username doesn't fix that, only changing how you respond and interact can. I do think you're getting better, but it's not an overnight process.

I'm not putting all the blame on you, it takes two to tango. I will suggest that Tom and the others consider whether their post is actually adding something (whether on topic or not), or merely "harassing other members".



Plus, everyone that's ever turned a wrench, hates engineers :tongue2:

 

[nmurph]

This thread deserves a-

 

[Philbert]

This thread deserves a- (lock)

Yeah, we should move this to the 'pissing match thread' in the 'off the topic' forum - we are WAY off the topic. I was interested in the original question though.

Thanks.

Philbert

 

[H 2 H]

After reading this thread it sure seems the worm has turned

 

[Gologit]

I can't really think of a single advantage to the construction Husky uses - it can't be weight as they still have a metal insert and the cap weighs nothing anyway. Does anyone know why they do this?

Because it's cheap, easy to manufacture, and most importantly, the average person who buys a saw like that doesn't care?

There...happy now Philbert?

And my apologies to everyone for helping drag this thread so far off topic.

 

[Chris-PA]

I've watched this whole thread, even added my thoughts (on and off topic) in one post. I'd say the problem isn't in the question the thread asks, but in your attitude toward opinions that don't match yours. It's not as loudly on display in this thread as others, but it's there, and guys like thomas1 are drawn to it.

Changing your username doesn't fix that, only changing how you respond and interact can. I do think you're getting better, but it's not an overnight process.

I'm not putting all the blame on you, it takes two to tango. I will suggest that Tom and the others consider whether their post is actually adding something (whether on topic or not), or merely "harassing other members".



Plus, everyone that's ever turned a wrench, hates engineers :tongue2:

I challenged the world view of thomas1 and others in other threads (the epa and environmentalists are the root of all evil, private corporations are a beacon of virtue, etc.), and for that they are "drawn" to harass me and disrupt my posts. This is no surprise, as it is how they usually behave. The reality is that my views on many things do not match those of a very vocal group here, and people like thomas1 cannot tolerate that. It is typical behavior in so many areas of life these days, and a big part of why we cannot have any kind of dialog about much of anything. As soon as anything that is different is identified the group gathers together to drive it out. While that group likes to think they speak for everyone, I find there are many here with whom I get along fine and have pleasant and civil discussions about many common interests.

While I may challenge people's views or dispute on technical points, I am not rude or disrespectful. Nor do go out of my way to follow people from thread to thread and give them a hard time.

And yes I know how people feel about engineers - it's really disconcerting when they find an engineer up to his elbows in grease and turning wrenches too.

 

[bucknfeller]

I challenged the world view of thomas1 and others in other threads (the epa and environmentalists are the root of all evil, private corporations are a beacon of virtue, etc.), and for that they are "drawn" to harass me and disrupt my posts. This is no surprise, as it is how they usually behave. The reality is that my views on many things do not match those of a very vocal group here, and people like thomas1 cannot tolerate that. It is typical behavior in so many areas of life these days, and a big part of why we cannot have any kind of dialog about much of anything. As soon as anything that is different is identified the group gathers together to drive it out. While that group likes to think they speak for everyone, I find there are many here with whom I get along fine and have pleasant and civil discussions about many common interests.

While I may challenge people's views or dispute on technical points, I am not rude or disrespectful. Nor do go out of my way to follow people from thread to thread and give them a hard time.

And yes I know how people feel about engineers - it's really disconcerting when they find an engineer up to his elbows in grease and turning wrenches too.

You still don't get it. World views and differences in opinion have nothing to do with why they are drawn to your posts. It's the tone in which your views are conveyed.

 

[Philbert]

Because it's cheap, easy to manufacture, and most importantly, the average person who buys a saw like that doesn't care?
There...happy now Philbert?
And my apologies to everyone for helping drag this thread so far off topic.

(Thank you Bob!)

Philbert

 

[Chris-PA]

You still don't get it. World views and differences in opinion have nothing to do with why they are drawn to your posts. It's the tone in which your views are conveyed.

Yes, I have noticed that thomas and the boys are deeply sensitive folks who are easily hurt. They're really just protecting themselves (and all those other innocent AS members) from my harsh, evil ways and my "tone".

Spare me.

 

[thomas1]

I challenged the world view of thomas1 and others in other threads (the epa and environmentalists are the root of all evil, private corporations are a beacon of virtue, etc.), and for that they are "drawn" to harass me and disrupt my posts. This is no surprise, as it is how they usually behave. The reality is that my views on many things do not match those of a very vocal group here, and people like thomas1 cannot tolerate that. It is typical behavior in so many areas of life these days, and a big part of why we cannot have any kind of dialog about much of anything. As soon as anything that is different is identified the group gathers together to drive it out. While that group likes to think they speak for everyone, I find there are many here with whom I get along fine and have pleasant and civil discussions about many common interests.

While I may challenge people's views or dispute on technical points, I am not rude or disrespectful. Nor do go out of my way to follow people from thread to thread and give them a hard time.

And yes I know how people feel about engineers - it's really disconcerting when they find an engineer up to his elbows in grease and turning wrenches too.

What part of my world view have you challenged and where has anyone been less than civil?

I like reading your posts, the contradictory circles that you write in are quite amusing. I wish you would be a little less verbose, though as it makes wading through your posts tedious at times. I get that you think people can't grasp concepts on the same level as yourself, there is no need to repeat it ad nauseum.

You were looking for an answer to an engineering question, people gave you plausible suggestions. Unless the original designer signs on you are never going to have a definitive answer. You have said multiple times that engineers have to make compromises for various reasons, not the least off which is cost. Why was that not a good enough answer to your original question?

 

[thomas1]

Yes, I have noticed that thomas and the boys are deeply sensitive folks who are easily hurt. They're really just protecting themselves (and all those other innocent AS members) from my harsh, evil ways and my "tone".

Spare me.

For anyone to be hurt they would have to take what you say seriously. There is no imminent danger of that happening.

 

[slls]

a wise man once told me "take something apart enough times and eventually you'll have two of them."

:d

roflmao

 

[TIMBERTRON]

Plastic clamp chassis with metal clam insert

They build them that way so that when the saw destroys itself it makes it more costly for the repair because they have to replace the chassis or they will tell you by the time you repair it you should have gone and gotten another one brand new with warranty and you will break even or you will spend another hundred or two on a new saw instead of repairing the used one. dealers make more money with saws and equipment that breaks and needs to be replaced then they do on selling parts plus labor at a local dealer. simple math make equipment that cheap enough for everyone to buy but cost to much to repair more product that gets replaced rather then gets repaired make more money then repairs no product will move if you are able to keep repairing it. so todays society through it out and get a new one if repair cost to much