Sthil MS 461 vs Stihl MS 660 Dyno tested

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  1. Hey guys to those I upset with my last post I'm sorry maybe I should have went at it in a different angle .Let's step back a couple steps who am I some ask . Im just your average mild age man with a degree in mechanical engineering. I went to school at Massachusetts institute of technology in Cambridge ma. I work Virginia Beach , Virginia and yes I am a hill billy . With that being said I think its great what you are tryin to do with the dyno just found your numbers that had been posted to be a little off. I wish you would have followed up with the numbers after you figured out your dyno wasn't pulling the right ones.With that being said I think some had a few things to say about respect . I see this as a two way street Maybe we should show a little more respect to those who work so hard to bring use these fine saws. The 461 does run great from the start or to say stock. Does it run better then the ms 660? No!!!! Maybe we should set back a thank some people for putting that single port muffler on it witch is so easily to mod to bring this saw to life. Let's not forget guys I'm pretty sure this is done do to the EPA . To all the Saw builders out there you don't really need a dyno to know how your work is doing put a sharp chain on her and let the saw do the talking and keep up the great work. One last things guys would love to see all the positive and negative things on the 661 let use know. If you took the time to read all of this thank you And keep a Stihl in your hands.
 
Hill billy said:
  1. Hey guys to those I upset with my last post I'm sorry maybe I should have went at it in a different angle .Let's step back a couple steps who am I some ask . Im just your average mild age man with a degree in mechanical engineering. I went to school at Massachusetts institute of technology in Cambridge ma. I work Virginia Beach , Virginia and yes I am a hill billy . With that being said I think its great what you are tryin to do with the dyno just found your numbers that had been posted to be a little off. I wish you would have followed up with the numbers after you figured out your dyno wasn't pulling the right ones.With that being said I think some had a few things to say about respect . I see this as a two way street Maybe we should show a little more respect to those who work so hard to bring use these fine saws. The 461 does run great from the start or to say stock. Does it run better then the ms 660? No!!!! Maybe we should set back a thank some people for putting that single port muffler on it witch is so easily to mod to bring this saw to life. Let's not forget guys I'm pretty sure this is done do to the EPA . To all the Saw builders out there you don't really need a dyno to know how your work is doing put a sharp chain on her and let the saw do the talking and keep up the great work. One last things guys would love to see all the positive and negative things on the 661 let use know. If you took the time to read all of this thank you And keep a Stihl in your hands.
Click to expand...

Well mate you are a rare new guy to actually apologise so kudos to you :) I think the comment that rubbed a few people up the wrong way was your "BS" comment. That came across a bit blunt and harsh, particularly in your first post. Explaining why you think the OP's dyno results were wrong would have helped a lot.
On another note I 100% agree with you about a stock 461 beating a stock 660. I hear a lot of guys saying that in small wood my "insert small saw here" will beat my "insert big saw here". The 461's are a very strong saw though, no doubt about it. A 17cc odd difference in capacity is a lot to cover though when no porting is involved.
If these guys leant into both saws I'm sure they would have a different opinion. I did a video up a while ago with my two ported Dolmar 7900's, my ported 390XPG, and my bog stock Husky 3120 in 22" odd hardwood with the same bar and chain. The 3120 ran last and the RSC chain was starting to get visibly beaten up. All had the same size rims fitted. The 3120 absolutely flogged the other saws by a considerable margin.
If small saws could indeed hand a larger saw their arse in smaller wood (all things being equal) then they wouldn't have capacity classes in chainsaw racing.

***If anybody owns both a 461 and 660 please insert comparison video here...
 
Hill billy said:
. With that being said I think its great what you are tryin to do with the dyno just found your numbers that had been posted to be a little off. I wish you would have followed up with the numbers after you figured out your dyno wasn't pulling the right ones.
Click to expand...

I'm not so sure I get the point here, the limitations of a prototype dyno were disclosed, the numbers presented were never meant to be considered as anything other than numbers relative to each other. At no time was any inference made that the torque figures had been corrected, but they were relevant to each other. If 1 saw makes 5 bananas at 8000rpm and the other makes 4 bananas at 8000rpm it's still a valid result.
As I read the thread, the limitations only presented themselves when trying to pull a 660 down to below what I would consider a working range anyway.
 
Hill billy said:
Chadihman I think what you are trying to do is get on testing these saw . But on the other hand I think your in way over your head you posted numbers on here that are bs. I thought this page was for good information . A guy who has a tractor on his signature should know how a dyno works. If you can put a good pull on it you can test it . I also love it when people say a 461 will out cut a 660 in wood up to 24" this to is just bs . If you really want to see what your 461 is mad though a bigger pin sprocket on both of them and see what happens pretty sure you won't be bragging on your 461 for long . All I'm trying to say is the 660 is the 461 bigger brother but with that being said I don't think stihl had planned on people running a 660 with a 20" bar cutting small rounds .
Click to expand...

Wow... I thought this thread was dead. Welcome hill billy!
I never said a 461 would take the place of a 660???. I built this dyno without a bunch of money or a college degree. Its main purpose is to test changes made to HP and torque from mods made to a chainsaw. I use a base saw to test against the modded saw to check the increase or decreased HP and torque. By the way I do know how a dyno works I just don't have the money to make it meet your expectations.

Could you please school me on how a dyno works hill billy? Apparently all I have is BS.
 
weedkilla said:
I'm not so sure I get the point here, the limitations of a prototype dyno were disclosed, the numbers presented were never meant to be considered as anything other than numbers relative to each other. At no time was any inference made that the torque figures had been corrected, but they were relevant to each other. If 1 saw makes 5 bananas at 8000rpm and the other makes 4 bananas at 8000rpm it's still a valid result.
As I read the thread, the limitations only presented themselves when trying to pull a 660 down to below what I would consider a working range anyway.
Click to expand...
Sweet! I like bananas. Hopefully my saws make lots of them. Lol.
 
they think we are stupid Chad, because we have no degree. that said, I am glad he came back to explain himself some what. he could prove to be a valuable member here.
don't you feel bad about your dyno, you did very well at something few have tried.
 
066blaster said:
Do the readings change when the oil gets hotter and thinner?
Click to expand...
No. The torque reading comes if the rotational torque of the pump twisting more or less. I can labor the pump variably at any psi oil pressure. When the oil gets hotter the pump turns easier so the needle valve is turned shut a fraction more so the load can remain the same. The oil temp is much more stable now with the oil cooler I have installed. I'm now working on a pwm solenoid with a potentiometer dial control. I plan on having a control panel with the rpm, torque, oil psi/ temp, and a rotary knob for adjusting the torque with a pwm solenoid adjusting the pressure. This way there will be no hyd hoses stiffening changing the torque or the need for your hand turning a valve so close to a very high rpm shaft and a pump with psi internally of sometimes up to 3000 psi.
 
Coming next summer, to a wood pile near you,
C'Man and The GTG,DYNO-TOUR !!

Just say it in your best 3a.m. commercial radio announcers, tractor pull/wrestle mania promo voice.

I'm still rooting for the dyno project. Just that when you're doing spring yard cleanup
in exchange for a simple parts order, it's tough to even think of becoming a participant in the good stuff.
 

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