I need a new climbing saw

[1CallLandscape]

i special ordered my 200 with the old caps 2 months ago. as far as the muffler gos just put some lock tite on them bolts

i also run a stihl 017 with some porting and muffler mods. i find that it out performs the 200 in bigger wood and has awesome balance even when using it one handed... this is my prefered saw for blocking down. it is VERY durable for a cheap a** "homeowner" saw , mine has survived a 65' fall ( thanks to my new groundie still learning his knots my saw fell ) and at 1/3 the cost of the 200 how can you go wrong!!

 

[Fumbler]

Redline......the worlds simplest gas cap? Never heard of ANY other problems?

Keep you head buried in the sand and you will continue to see nothing.

I have used the 200t for a long time. There are MANY DOCUMENTED problems and th oil cap is one...and so is the carb. I use the 200t because it is the fastest cutting hand held.....but nothing is perfect about it.

Are there a lot of problems because there are so many out there, or is the percentage of 200t's with problems actually higher than other saws?

Say Stihl sells 100,000 MS200T's. 50 of them blow up and those owners tell everyone what happend.

Now say Husqvarna sells 5,000 338XPTs. 5 of them blow up and those owners tell everyone.

Which is the better product? The Stihl has a 0.05% failure rate while the Husqvarna fails twice as often (0.1%), but still some may think the Stihl is a poor product.
Is this the case?

 

[jomoco]

I've stated my belief that the ms200 is the top saw for take downs currently available.

However I know for a fact that I'm not the only professional climber that's annoyed by their stupid gas and oil caps, single adjustment carburetors, flawed muffler design and mickey mouse lanyard attachment point, etc.

Any reps or or enlightened manufacturerers that read this forum need to get back to old time common sense product design.

Oil and gas caps need to be rugged and durable, and because they are dust magnets, their design should be such that they can be readily cleaned with a few swipes of an oil rag, this will keep the muck out of the tanks and carb.

Carbs need three adjustment screws, high, low, and idle. Air filter elements need to be made of a synthetic material that can be cleaned with gas in the field. Those flock paper air filters that say clean with soap and water only are a joke!

Large mufflers require enough firm attachment points with air craft grade bolts that they won't rattle loose or fracture. I know of no loc tite ever made that can withstand the heat of direct exhaust exposure.

Lanyard attachment points should be incredibly durable and designed in a manner that allows the climber to attach it to his saddle with one hand, and preferably without even looking.

And I know that some of you guys out there that use the ms200 have put your new fangled oil cap on thinking that it was on correctly, only to have it fall off once you were in the tree, and coat your leg with bar oil that you would have to wear and smell for the rest of the day.

You see the cap has to be at exactly the 6 and 12 Oclock position when you twist the locking mechanism to secure it, and though it will act like it's on if you engage it otherwise, the jokes on you, the tree, the lawn, your pants, your boots, and any number of things below you.

Sorry for ranting but I needed to get it out.

jomoco

 

[hornett22]

i like the 192t but..............

the carbs are never right new.have it adjusted or learn to do it yourself.
i adjusted the carb after opening the muffler up a little,got rid of the low kickback chain, and it's a completely different saw.sorry but the 200 is too heavy.i still don't see the problem with the fuel and oil caps.i like them and have had absolutely no trouble with them what so ever on my 192 or my pole saw and i'm a husky man.

oh and the 192 has three adjusment screws!

 

[sawinredneck]

.sorry but the 200 is too heavy.i still don't see the problem with the fuel and oil caps.i like them and have had absolutely no trouble with them what so ever on my 192 or my pole saw and i'm a husky man.

oh and the 192 has three adjusment screws!

I see the heavey with the 200, but I want one. no problems with the new caps YET, but you will!!!!!!!!
Andy

 

[treesandsurf]

I remember the first time I ever used a 200t and the guy I was working for spent like twenty minutes on the ground making sure that I understood how to close the oil cap, because he did not want me to send it up to him and have the oil spill out all over the place... never closed it wrong yet (knock on wood)

other than that and a few other small problems mentioned, it's the best all around saw out there, although I prefer a 338 husqy for light pruning jobs..

jp

 

[musch]

So.... realizing that I am opening a can of worms here,
anybody here have experience with the top-handle Husky's like the 338?

 

[treesandsurf]

I might be treading into dangerous waters here, but I like the 338xpt especially for light pruning work, it feels well balanced and is a bit more ergonomic IMHO, but I won't argue that power wise and for removals the 200 takes the cake.

jp

 

[matty f]

I really cant understand how people have a problem with the oil and petrol caps,sure ive been coated with oil on more than one occasion due to the grounds man been retarded and not closing them but it was far worse with the old style caps ,at least you know they are locked but unless the old style caps have been done up with a comby spanner they would vibrate lose somtimes or cross thread also the combi spanner would mangle the cap and puncture it so it would need replacing every four months.
Yeah some 200t's ive had seem to love shedding there exhaust bolts but i find huskys far worse for this, i have to carry a spare allen key attached to one of my huskys for this purpose.
My last 200t went three years on the orginal exhaust it never cracked or fell off .

I once had a 338 and in between the rubber between the carb and engine splitting,trying to tune it ,you could rev it up and watch the bar nose sprocket glow red before disintegrating most amusing unless you where trying to get work done!

 

[MNClimber]

I have an old 020t and a 200t like both saw's but the new 200t does have better balance and powers a 16 inch bar better than the 020t does. I also had a johns rude and a Husky I tried them out for a couple of weeks there not bad saws but balance and shape of the saw I personally didn't like and the Stihls seem to take the inevitable fall better with less damage.

 

[elmnut]

Like most of the other veteran climbers I feel that the ms200 is the best choice, particularly for removals. However there are two things about the ms200 that really annoy me. The first is of course the stupid new gas and oil caps. But what really gets to me is that regardless of whether it's an 020T or a ms200, it's just a matter of time before the muffler rattles loose and eventually fractures into pieces. This was never a problem with the old magnesium 020's, which I believe were the most powerful climb saws ever made. I have e-mailed Stihl about their stupid caps and flawed muffler design, and am not surprised that they have not replied to me. I'm sure they do quite well selling new mufflers to their frustrated customers!

Other manufacturers have a very good opportunity here to produce a saw that can meet the rigorous demands of a demolition climber, and successfully replace Stihl as the top dog in the field now. It's really too bad that Stihl doesn't listen to their professional customers feed back and correct these relatively minor design flaws, but hey that's their problem, and eventually they'll pay the price in lost sales.

Any of you other guys had problems with loose and fractured mufflers on 020's and ms200's like I have with every single one I've bought?

jomoco

Many Stihl dealers have prototype saws that need testing, and feed back from the people that use them. The hard part is calling all the dealers to find one that has test saws. Some are homeowner saws some are pro saws. All my company had to do was fill out a log sheet, and answer some simple questions. Once a month or so a rep will come to you and make some changes to the saw(s). We tested some great saws over the course of 3 years or so. We only stopped because that particular dealer had other problems that outweighed test saws, such as no service or parts.

 

[RedlineIt]

A tip on keeping your 200t/020t mufflers where they ought to be.

Usually the last thing you do with the best take-down saw in the biz is cut the last piece it will handle before you send it down for a bigger saw.

Don't just shut it off after all that work, let it idle away for awhile so that the flywheel fan can breathe some air across all those head/to/exhaust parts and cool them down a bit.

And take the right side off every once in a while and blow the fan out.

Do these two things and your muffler will never rattle loose.


RedlineIt

 

[hornett22]

i still don't understand the problem with the caps.

if you watch what you are doing and slow down a little and pay attention,they work fine.seems the only way they would mess up is if you got it started crooked.i will let you know when i have a problem.my partner could scew up an anvil and even he has had no trouble with them.

 

[jomoco]

A tip on keeping your 200t/020t mufflers where they ought to be.

Usually the last thing you do with the best take-down saw in the biz is cut the last piece it will handle before you send it down for a bigger saw.

Don't just shut it off after all that work, let it idle away for awhile so that the flywheel fan can breathe some air across all those head/to/exhaust parts and cool them down a bit.

And take the right side off every once in a while and blow the fan out.

Do these two things and your muffler will never rattle loose.


Your good advice makes sense, and I do keep my cooling fins cleaned out.

However, I get paid good money to keep my production high, and most of the time there's a very expensive hydro crane waiting for me to set him up for the next pick, so waiting around for my saw to idle itself cool is somewhat unrealistic.

I'm one of those demolition climbers that doesn't like to use any bigger saw than I have to in order to save energy. Naturally this means that I use the heck out of my ms200's, and as you stated they do get very hot. I have three of them and like to switch back and forth between them as much as possible to make them last.

The only 020's that I've used that haven't eventually rattled apart are the old magnesium cased ones with the small mufflers. They were somewhat temperamental, but what a power house demo saw they were. I still have one as a fail safe back up.

Thanks for the good advice, and I'll use it as much as I can get away with.

I still believe that a better engineering design effort on Stihl's part could easily solve this problem as well as prove to their professional customers that they're number one for a reason.

Work Safe

jomoco

 

[jomoco]

As far as the stupid caps are concerned

if you watch what you are doing and slow down a little and pay attention,they work fine.seems the only way they would mess up is if you got it started crooked.i will let you know when i have a problem.my partner could scew up an anvil and even he has had no trouble with them.

If the new oil cap were as reliable as the new gas cap, I probably wouldn't be griping on this subject. However I contract out to many different tree companies and therefore end up having my ms200's fueled up by a variety of groundmen, and if I'm lucky enough to get my saw back with the oil cap still on, half the time it's on wrong and I have to take precious time to get it on right or else. This problem only occurs on the ms200 oil cap. The caps on my ms440 work well.

That said, I still don't like these new fangled Stihl caps because it's just a matter of time before you'll have clogged tank filters, carbs and blown oil pumps as a result of all the saw dust crud that these caps collect in their many intricate little crevices, and migrating into the tanks. I use compressed air to clean these new caps off before fueling, and I still find my self using my finger to clean out the crud that creeps down into the filler opening.

To me this is crappy design that can be easily avoided. My old magnesium
020T had smooth tight surfaces on the gas and oil caps that could be easily cleaned with a few swipes with an oil rag. Realisticly it's ridiculous to think that your average guy in the field is going to have much more than a rag or brush to do any cleaning with anyway......DESIGN FOR IT!

Quality design is a relatively simple straight forward thing, and I'd hate to think these guys that design this stupid stuff are doing it on purpose to sell parts and keep their dealership's repair department busy.

jomoco

 

[Sunrise Guy]

There is no doubt that the oil cap on the 192 is sucky. Today, I had to waste three minutes getting that thing on. It looked fine, I couldn't see any deformations in the grooves, but it just wouldn't catch and seat itself back into the saw body. What a drag! I also know that crud does get into the oil tank, having had to flush my oil tank out with gas to get the filter clean. Oh yeah, the filter. What's with that short hose? You can't take the filter out to change it since the hose is so short. You have to take the whole side of the saw off to change the darn filter. That is ridiculous! My old saws have a long enough hose to just scoop the filter out and pop a new one on in seconds. I agree, wholeheartedly, with the fellow who said the Stihl seems to come up with dumb "improvements" from time to time. Give me back the screw-on caps and the longer tubing on the in-tank oil filter line.

 

[hornett22]

i can see your point on the crud.

alot of it seems to accumulate around the caps.i do agree also that the scew on ones worked fine.it's all marketing.kind of like replacing a solid fron axle and leaf springs on a 4x4 with IFS so soccer moms could drive trucks.

 

[matty f]

Jesus you had to clean your saw !!!!!!!!!! well its a wonder it runs at all, sorry but the old caps where ????,all it takes is a knock pulling them through a few branches and a few mins running and they vibrate off and your covered in petrol (or oil)so you end up red raw or worse in your ayes or all over your crutch,personaly id rather be covered in oil and its realy not that hard to make sure your oil cap is locked.

 

[MNClimber]

I just installed a small Viair air tank and compressor on my truck to blow thing off fill tires on trucks trailers and log carts. Only cost a couple hundred bucks and it worked with my air helper springs. Also if you twist the new caps counter clockwise first they will lock down in the groves a lot better works almost every time. Thats what I showed my ground guys after bathing in enough of my bar oil.

 

[RedlineIt]

Jomoco,

By the time I've worked down far enough to need a bigger saw, I'm still 40 to 60 feet up, saw idling on it's way down is enough.

If it's a smaller tree, telling the groundie to let it idle a minute is not hard.


Tip on 200t oil caps:

If you're filling from more than half empty, saw flat and level, bar to your left, fill to the brim, tip body of saw toward you, large air bubble will release, level of oil goes down to point where cap inserts with ease.

Don't even get me started on Husky 335/338xpt oil pumps! So weak.

If you keep the bar groove to oiler port on a Stihl clear, the pump eats damn near anything.

And sluicing your oil tank out with gas in just normal maint. On any saw.


RedlineIt