ripplerider
ArboristSite Member
Anyone know if Stihl has plans to update the anti-vibe system on the 460 anytime soon?
461 in works?
- Thread starter ripplerider
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mikefunaro
Addicted to ArboristSite
If there's an update it won't just be antivibe...it'll be strato, husky style air filtration, etc. That's the way they've all been going and I cannot imagine a saw maker putting the money into R&D for a non-strato saw.
If you do a search I believe initial reports were that it might be out this year at some point; however, it looks less than likely. The next saws to go will be the 290, 310, 390 family. If you go onto stihl.de you can see the new 311 and 391.
Apparently the EPA is allowing the credits to work beyond the 2010 limit or so it seems. Stihl has lots of credits through all their 4-mix equipment which is cleaner is most cases (I believe) than strato equipment.
If you do a search I believe initial reports were that it might be out this year at some point; however, it looks less than likely. The next saws to go will be the 290, 310, 390 family. If you go onto stihl.de you can see the new 311 and 391.
Apparently the EPA is allowing the credits to work beyond the 2010 limit or so it seems. Stihl has lots of credits through all their 4-mix equipment which is cleaner is most cases (I believe) than strato equipment.
mikefunaro
Addicted to ArboristSite
Someone on here claimed to be in the process of putting steel springs on a 260..did anyone catch what happened to that?
No, I asked a guy at STIHL and he said " There isn't any replacement for the 460 or the 660 in the near future".
Slamm
Addicted to ArboristSite
??? The 441 isn't good enough for you?
I've got a ported 441 that will run right with ported 460 under normal cutting work, and get much, much better gas mileage, plus it has anti-vibe and a great filtration system. Thats why I have never felt to need to get a 460 even though I do feel they are and have been great saws for many years.
The difference between the 460 and 441 is so small and they already have the 441 being built ...... whats the point?? , but then again these are chainsaws, we are speaking of, so there doesn't have to be much of a point, LOL.
Sam
I've got a ported 441 that will run right with ported 460 under normal cutting work, and get much, much better gas mileage, plus it has anti-vibe and a great filtration system. Thats why I have never felt to need to get a 460 even though I do feel they are and have been great saws for many years.
The difference between the 460 and 441 is so small and they already have the 441 being built ...... whats the point?? , but then again these are chainsaws, we are speaking of, so there doesn't have to be much of a point, LOL.
Sam
BloodOnTheIce
Addicted to ArboristSite
Because isn't not available there.
BloodOnTheIce
Addicted to ArboristSite
It's made in Virginia Beach like the 361 before it.
Just thinking about mikefunaro's comment above about newer models being introduced on their home turf.
It's interesting that they still offer the 440 in Germany (at least it is still listed on their website) so there must still be demand for it. The 210 is not listed, so the 211 must be viewed as 'better'.
I assume that the 362 is being introduced into the US market partially due to the EPA, but the lower fuel use and reduced vibes should benefit all. Will be interesting to see how long they carry the 361 in Germany once they start selling (and manufacturing?) the 362 there too.
Philberrt
It's interesting that they still offer the 440 in Germany (at least it is still listed on their website) so there must still be demand for it. The 210 is not listed, so the 211 must be viewed as 'better'.
I assume that the 362 is being introduced into the US market partially due to the EPA, but the lower fuel use and reduced vibes should benefit all. Will be interesting to see how long they carry the 361 in Germany once they start selling (and manufacturing?) the 362 there too.
Philberrt
It's more like totally because of EPA. The 361 already had reduced vibes and better fuel use .... until you open the muffler that is .... then it drinks it pretty good .... and the 361 weighed 3/4 pound less too, and it was cheaper. The better anti-vibe would pertain more to the 440 vs 441 than the 361 vs 362. And as far as the fuel use ..... listening to some of these guys you'd think those stratos get double the "mileage" or more .... Stihl even quotes "up to" 20% better I believe .... it's not much .... these aren't cars. And, that 362 is heavy ... as is the 441. Some claim the stratos cut a little better stock than the models they replaced .... it's probably because both the 361 and current 460 have factory muffler outlets the size of a pencil in addition to internal baffling .... stock, they can't breath at all. The 441 for sure, and I bet the 362 also, have a larger muffler port and no internal baffling. The dealers can talk up those new stratos all they want .... they have to .... pretty soon it's all they will have to sell thanks to EPA. Might want to pick up all the "legend" old models while you still can. Or, wait for 10-15 more years until they "perfect" these EPA saws .... they're too heavy period right now. The "balance" is also off ..... pick up a 441 and compare to a 440 or 460 .... even though it's heavier than both .... it doesn't feel like either to me .... it's more than just the added weight. It feels like holding a big round dead weight rock with a handle .... to me. It does still have the excellent Stihl build quality though. Nope, I'm not looking forward to any new 461 myself ... YMMV.
BloodOnTheIce
Addicted to ArboristSite
according to the "manuf. specs", the 440, 441, and 460 are within 0.2 lbs of each other. the 576 and the 372 are within 1.1 lbs, which is the approx weight of 22 oz of fuel. How many people could tell the difference between these 5 saws if, dare say, running one blindfolded while half empty or half full of premix? must be a balance thing more than a gravity thing? 
firemanmarc
ArboristSite Member
The springs in a 260 might be me.. I put some springs from a Husky 350 into an 026. I basically replaced the rubber av mounts on the bottom with the the 350 springs. I then replaced the upper av mount with a custom spring from a local manufacturer and fabbed up a mount for it. I have been trying to use it whenever, wherever I can to test durability. I need to get tougher springs. The local spring place is working with me to make the right spring. I can say it certainly is smoother on the hands, it bottoms out too easy.. I am afraid to stiff a spring will take it away... I am working on pictures of the setup. I can honestly say most people on here could it themselves after they see... Marc
Wild Knight
ArboristSite Guru
I've had my stock 441 at three GTG's so far, and there was no difference in cut times between the 441 and 460. In fact, in firewood sized rounds, there wasn't much difference between the 441 and 660. You had to throw on the 32" bar and cut a 31" log to begin seeing significant differences.
The biggest power gain with the strato motors comes from Stihl using 4 port transfers. The 460 and 660 only use 2 ports, which is why the 441 can keep up with them despite having a smaller motor.
I look forward to the 461. I hope they come out with the 261 and 661 first though...
The biggest power gain with the strato motors comes from Stihl using 4 port transfers. The 460 and 660 only use 2 ports, which is why the 441 can keep up with them despite having a smaller motor.
I look forward to the 461. I hope they come out with the 261 and 661 first though...
wigglesworth
Booned
according to the "manuf. specs", the 440, 441, and 460 are within 0.2 lbs of each other. the 576 and the 372 are within 1.1 lbs, which is the approx weight of 22 oz of fuel. How many people could tell the difference between these 5 saws if, dare say, running one blindfolded while half empty or half full of premix? must be a balance thing more than a gravity thing?
my MS 460 full of fuel on my wife's scale(please don't tell her) weigh's 21 pounds w/25" on it. My 044 with a 25" bar weighs 19 pounds. Thats a lot more than .02 pounds.
Slamm
Addicted to ArboristSite
Wow, if this is true (not saying that it isn't, LOL) then it confirms what I have been saying for some time. That my modded 361 is very close in cut times to a stock 660 and that my modded 441 would be seemily faster yet.
I have just used them for logging, falling and bucking, and have never timed the cuts, but after awhile you can tell what is working and it always seemed to me to be more practical to run a smaller modded saw than hold onto a bigger, stock saw all day, especially, when they "appear" to be cutting nearly the same. But the smaller saws get much, much better gas mileage, to the point that my 361 would cut and top 16ish trees for every 4 that the 660 would cut and top, and that seems to put it ahead in the getting the wood on the ground department provided we are talking about 25" or less bars, which is what I have on my 361 and a 28" on the 441.
Thanks, for the input,
Sam
So how about helping a guy out who is on the verge of pulling the trigger for a new 460. If the biggest bar you were going to put on it is a 25 would you buy the 441 and maybe mod it a bit or buy the 460. And if the 460 were to get the same mods as the 441, which would then be the better saw all things considered? At my age two pounds is two pounds, if the performance is similar I would go for the weight saving.
willsaw4beer
Addicted to ArboristSite
What about putting a bigger P&C on a 441? A factory big bore/ super/ mag/ whatever they want to call it.
Slamm
Addicted to ArboristSite
The guy that ported my 441 has done about 20+ 460 and he had the modds down pat as to what worked. Most of these saws are for a tree company that he maintains, so he got to work with and improve his ideas, not just make one and then ship it away, never to be seen again.
He has only done one 441 (mine) and it took him a little while to figure out what Stihl had done there, he even whined a little bit at first, because it wasn't something he was use to seeing, but as he started to work on it, he began to really like the 441 and he really like the 361 and feels the 361's setup is one of the better designs.
Anyways, when he got the 441 done, he did many test cuts against the 460's and they all had advanced timing (the 441 didn't have advanced timing,yet) and with a 25" bar on all modded saws you couldn't get any difference in time, yet the 441 is much smoother, better fitration and much better gas mileage this equals a faster easier to work with saw day in and day out.
I have used this very 441 logging and it starts very easy and is completely trouble free.
I don't dislike the 460 ...... I just don't see the point in owning one for production purposes, it doesn't bring anything to the table that beats the 441 for the money, but that is my opinion.
Sam
