AVGAS ??'s

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Well, I'm the new guy here, but I want to chime in on this one. One of my hobbies is RC boating. The gas guys run zenoahs and there has been discussion on high octane auto fuel as well as very low octane "coleman fuel".
These guys claim that running the high octane stuff in a low compression, high rpm two stroke produces a lot of heat and the fuel burns in the muffler generating even more. Many of the gas guys run Coleman fuel in their zen's for max power and durability.

What say ye?:monkey:
 
I believe that running a High Octane fuel in a low compression engine is not necessary - but the high octane fuel does not burn any hotter than low octane fuel and offers no performance advantage in a low compression engine. If low octane fuel runs in your engine without any "pinging" then you do not need any higher octane. The Octane rating is a rating of the fuel to resist "knock" or pre-ignition in a high compression engine. I have searched this on the internet and found that the Octane Rating does not have any relation to the speed at which a fuel burns or the available energy - it is only a rating of the resistance to detonation.

I wish someone with an engine that had an Exhaust Temperature Guage would use both Low and High Octane gas and post the results so this "myth" could be cleared up.....as I believe that there is no additional power or heat created by running High octane fuel in a low compression engine.

I have started to use 100LL Avgas in a few select things to avoid storage related problems. My generator does sit for a long time between uses and I have about a gallon of Avgas in it - enough so that I can get it running when I need to, and during an extended power outage I would add regular gas to keep it running. I have started to use Avgas in my vintage motorcycles as they sit for long periods of time and the modern fuels rust the steel tanks and react with the aluminum carbs bowls. I also just got a motorcycle that requires 98 octane and the highest pump gas I can find is 93 - so I may start blending some Avgas with High Octane pump gas. My uncle has started to use Avgas in his antique cars as they sit for long periods of time between uses and the modern fuels gell in the copper fuel lines and brass carbs in a very short length of time. He also has a 1901 Oldsmobile that supplies fuel to the engine by dripping gas over a wire screen and the intake air passes through the screen on the way to the cylinder - it is a very primitive mixing valve and the car will only run on Avgas......it will not start or run on modern oxygenated fuels.

I would certainly not recommend using Avgas in any engine that can run on regular pump gas and is used often enough to keep the pump gas fresh. The lead content in Avgas 100LL is much higher than the automobile fuels ever had and it is not healthy to be using it in any engine that will allow you to breath the exhaust frequently. I have used it in my chainsaws.....I do not cut very frequently and would certainly not recommend it for anyone that cuts on a regular basis. Also Avgas is not very easy to purchase - the big airports will not sell it to you in most cases. The small local airports are probably your best bet to get Avgas. About a month ago I bought 15 gallons for use in my uncles antique cars and it was $ 5.64 a gallon.
 
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I just did a search on Lead Content of gasoline.

Prior to 1986 regular automobile gas contained a maxumum of 1 gram per gallon.

100LL Avgas contains 2 grams per gallon - or twice the lead that automobile fuel had. The "Low Lead" name is in reference to Avgas.....not to automobile fuels.

100 Avgas contains as much as 4 grams per gallon - or 4 times what automobile regular fuel had.
 
My need for this AV GAS is that it has such a long shelf life. In april I mix a couple gallons of 2 stroke for the lawnboy trim mower. Come october there is still some fuel mix left which gets dumped into an old gardentractor.

I think it would be great for the saws that get used less than the other ones.
 
I bought my AVGAS 100LL today. Price was $4.99/gal. (regular gas around here runs about $4.19 so it's not that much of a price premium IMHO).

The lady that runs the airpark told me it's self serve and just insert my credit card and punch in what I want to buy but she told me to stop the pump manually when I get the gas I paid for because it doesn't stop dispensing automatically. I guess aviators are a trustworthy crowd!!

She also told me to give airplanes the right of way on my way to the fueling area.

This little airpark is closer to where I live then any gas station. I sure hope this AVGAS is the solution to my fuel freshness issues. If so I'll use AVGAS exclusively in anything that's non automotive.
 
A good way to store both mix and unmixed fuel (Avgas) is recycled 1-gal metal cans that are used to sell coleman/white gas for stoves/lanterns. Air tight, no light. You can mix things in a 5-gal then transfer and use as needed.

For large amounts of unmixed fuel I use 55-gal metal drums. I store in a cool dry outbuilding.

As others have mentioned look out for the fire marshall police/fire codes if you are storing large volumes of fuel.

One more thing. When handling the large 55-gal drums take a jumper cable and ground the drum before opening/closing (to a plumbing pipe or copper stake/lightening rod). A spark with 55-gal of fuel is not good.............
 
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I routinely have on hand a large quantity of AvGas. I love the stuff and run it in most of my lawn equipment and of course all my saws. Makes plugs look like you just put then in even after months of use. Fuel systems stay clean and don't gunk up. The list of benefits is long. As for breathing lead I don't know about that but I've been sawing for yrs on straight AvGas so I hope I'll be OK. What about guys working the ramps at airports? They have to be breathing alot more than I can get off a chainsaw. One thing to be aware of. Don't leave the caps loose on your drums. The stuff evaporates real easy and before you know it its all gone. I lost bigger part of a 55gal drum last year to a loose cap.:cry:
 
Guys.... the web is free to search for answers... as is AS..


The stability of AVGAS has nothing to do with the lack of alcohol... It's due to the compounds selected and blended into the gas. In a post a year or two back on AS Bwalker explained the process.


Here's a snip I found on the web:


Aviation Gasoline Notes

Content
Aviation gasoline, avgas, is required to be an all hydrocarbon product. That is, its components must be chemicals that contain only carbon and hydrogen atoms. The use of oxygenated, chemicals that include oxygen atoms, compounds such as alcohols or ethers, is not permitted. Only a few select additives are permitted and their use is strictly controlled and limited. The primary ingredient in avgas is isooctane. This is a special component produced in the refining process by specialized equipment. Small amounts of isopentane and aromatic (ring) compounds are also used. The isopentane allows the correct volatility to be achieved in the final fuel blend. Aromatics are used to improve the rich mixture ratings. However, these aromatics must be limited to achieve other specifications. Grade 80 avgas may also contain straight-run gasoline but this component's lower octane rating makes it unsuitable for higher octane blends. Approved additives include alkyl-lead anti-knock additives. Other additives are also used to then control lead deposit formation. Color dyes are required in most grades for safety identification. Another common, and required, additive includes oxidation inhibitors to improve storage stability and inhibit gum formation. Theses anti-oxidant additives also help prevent lead compound precipitation (separation). Other additives such as corrosion inhibitors, fuel system icing inhibitor and static dissipator additives may also be included by agreement with the user, by the military or by some foreign specifications. All other additives are forbidden.

Physical and Content Specifications
The density and heat of combustion of aviation gasoline is specified. However, other specification, such as distillation range, greatly limit any variability in these measurements. The freezing point of the gasoline is specified to prevent the formation of solid hydrocarbons during prolonged cold soak at altitude. The formation of solids would of course jeopardize fuel flow and prevent full fuel availability. Avgas must also be stable in storage and under a variety of conditions. A primary form of deterioration is the formation of "gum" through oxidation and polymerization of fuel molecules. These can deposit on fuel system components and cause serious problems. Therefore gum formation is strictly limited in the specifications. The addition of anti-oxidants is required and results in good to excellent storage stability. The sulfur content of avgas is limited to a very small amount. This is needed because sulfur can cause a deterioration in the anti-knock performance of the lead additive. Sulfur also contributes to corrosion of fuel system and engine components. Fuel corrosiveness is tested by a cooper strip corrosion test. Avgas is also tested for water reaction. In this test samples of fuel and water are mixed and resulting changes are noted. This is used to detect the presence of high octane but water soluble components such as alcohols in the fuel. These are not permitted and can be detected by both volume change and phase separation in the test sample


And there is much more to read - http://purvisbros.com/afi/



Read the third sentance in your Quote. Alcohol is an oxidizer.
Oxygen in the fuel, with no heat (spark), starts a chemical reaction that is not fire. It begins to decompose the hydrocarbons and turn them into gum or varnish.
 

1) Mixed Avgas will last (many) months not weeks

2) Unmixed Avgas will last years

3) Avgas does not have alcohols which react (e.g. corrode magnesium and aluminum parts)

4) No alcohols means it will not readily absorb water and/or separate into a hydrocarbon and alcohol/water phase.

5) Oxygenated additives also decompose seals and hoses

So your seals/hoses/carb parts will last longer. Any exposed metal parts will not rot to alkoxides. You can store your mix/fuel without decomposition. Fuel separation will not occur.

If you are burning the fuel the day/week you mix it, all is fine with "corn fed" crap except the corrosion of oxygenated fuels on rubber/metal parts.

For ca. 60 cents a gallon over premium I'll go with Avgas. Only draw back is it contains lead.
 
Same place the proof that ethanol makes gas break down faster. We have had ethanol for years and years here. It take several years before gas is unusable around here.

Menard's has started selling premixed fuel. I don't remember what the name is but it comes in quart metal cans.
 
Just had to repeat my post.............................................................

The "why" hasn't changed from post #5. For the learning impaired:

Because keeping gasoline fresh in equipment that doesn't get used frequently is a major PIA. (ex: backup generator)
 
Well.

I for one, am quite excited about the concept.....................

Kind of like Marvel Mystery Oil, a message from God...............

It is good to churn up silly crap like this, to get excited about.

Sorry, just an observation.
 
Don't work up a big dander about replying, the topic is not worth it, I
will bow out..

Sorry...... You are all right............
 

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