SuperDuty04
ArboristSite Guru
The 261 is a fine saw that will handle a good load of work. I had a 261 and a 372xp and the 261 did 90% of my work.
Do new saws really get better after a few tanks?
- Thread starter Bassmantweed
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InTheNorth
Joshua 1:9
Don't sweat it things will improve a lot. When my ms261c was new I hated it....it would never restart after fuelling up and the power was pretty low. After a three or four weeks of daily use it always restarted and power improved. Three years later it is a great running saw that always makes good power and starts easy.
Yup, I think it's one of the best 1 saw plans. A guy can cut pretty large trees with an 18" 261 if they have to.
Of course it's easier/faster to do with a larger saw, and I love my 462 and 500i but the 261 is light and unless I need a larger than 18" bar, it gets the nod.
Eddie Southgate
Crusty ol' Bastard
Knock the drags down a hair . I always touch up a new chain and hit the drags a few strokes before I start cutting with a chain . Factory sharp ain't always sharp .
Yes, more power as it goes through a break-in period.
You can actually measure compression before and after. As the rings seat in, the compression will improve.
Only one I've ever REALLY checked was an MS-180 chi-com replacement that acted VERY sad when it was new. After 1-tank it had barely 120psi and now after good break-in it's over 150psi.
I've got an older 026 that I think the world of, it's my go-to.
You can actually measure compression before and after. As the rings seat in, the compression will improve.
Only one I've ever REALLY checked was an MS-180 chi-com replacement that acted VERY sad when it was new. After 1-tank it had barely 120psi and now after good break-in it's over 150psi.
I've got an older 026 that I think the world of, it's my go-to.
If you’re only running up to a 20” bar the stihl wins hands down, just for the simple fact it’s about 2.5lbs lighter and it has a better chain oiler. I’ve had both and to me the husqvarna was more of a boat anchor than a saw. It was heavy as crap and the bar was constantly gummed up with something. The only thing it had going for it was that engine, usually would start on 1-2 rips.He's talking about a 460 rancher, the MS391 probably has more power.
That's an opinion.
While weight can be a deciding factor(even though these two saws are not far from each other in weight as you claim), other factors such as balance and handling can make or break a saw.
Personally I'd rather have the husky because it handles much better and I could order any needed parts online.
One mans boat anchor is another mans saw
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Huskybill
Addicted to ArboristSite
There’s not enough gullet in a new chain.
I think it depends on what you’re doing with it, I do a lot of limbing and brush popping, with some occasional bucking of smaller trees. If you’re cutting much brush at all the 460 will turn your arms into jello, that’s if you can keep the bar clean enough not to burn up first.That's an opinion.
While weight can be a deciding factor(even though these two saws are not far from each other in weight as you claim), other factors such as balance and handling can make or break a saw.
Personally I'd rather have the husky because it handles much better and I could order any needed parts online.
One mans boat anchor is another mans saw
That's where I would want the husky, stihls handle terrible, I run them for bucking and if a powerhead is under 10lbs, but I prefer huskys for limbing.
I actually am not into 60cc saws (even though I have at least 4 of them), I go right from 50's to 70's. Like I said, it's an opinion/personal preference, nothing wrong with what you said(except the weights you quoted
).I have no problem keeping the bars clean. That being said I have a 455 downstairs I should take a look at, it's not oiling. That's how it was when I purchased it two yrs ago, as you can tell it's not my saw of choice lol.
BradSt
ArboristSite Operative
Gains from engine break in are more from decreasing drag than from "ring seal". New rings against a new cylinder have more friction than a seat of "seated" rings. This is the same reason why a 1 ring piston will usually produce more power than a 2 ring piston. Also the same reason why auto manufacturers are all using thin, low tension rings these days. With that said, I haven't noticed any significant power gains from engines breaking in, even though they are there. There is no magic "oh on this tank, my saw took off". It's gradual until the friction comes down to as low as it is going to get. I'd be surprised if the gains are more than 5%.
As for the 261. I've had a couple. Its a great saw for 50cc. I run my current model with a 16" .325 setup, and don't run it with the bar buried. If you're cutting 15" dead ash, its not going to wow you, but if you're cutting 10" Alder or Poplar, it zips right through. Take a few swipes off of the factory depth gauges, and try it again. This is also assuming the chain is actually sharp. I see a lot of people cutting with dull full chisel chain, and blaming the saw. I've also seen some with less than a tank of gas through a new saw, and the chain is done. Not saying this is the OP, but never know. Also, make sure the oiler is adjusted to max flow.
I do like the handling of my cutting buddy's Mk1 550xp...Great little saw, that seems to get a bad rap around here, but his has been flawless. I don't find that it has more power than my 261 though. Little better throttle response and better handling due to the inboard clutch.
As for the 261. I've had a couple. Its a great saw for 50cc. I run my current model with a 16" .325 setup, and don't run it with the bar buried. If you're cutting 15" dead ash, its not going to wow you, but if you're cutting 10" Alder or Poplar, it zips right through. Take a few swipes off of the factory depth gauges, and try it again. This is also assuming the chain is actually sharp. I see a lot of people cutting with dull full chisel chain, and blaming the saw. I've also seen some with less than a tank of gas through a new saw, and the chain is done. Not saying this is the OP, but never know. Also, make sure the oiler is adjusted to max flow.
I do like the handling of my cutting buddy's Mk1 550xp...Great little saw, that seems to get a bad rap around here, but his has been flawless. I don't find that it has more power than my 261 though. Little better throttle response and better handling due to the inboard clutch.
I don't agree...my personal experience is different. I don't have dyno numbers to back it up, but my 261, with quite a bit of run time on it is significantly stronger in the cut than my uncle's brand new 261 with < 5 tanks.
Hold his 261 by the pull cord and it drops fairly quickly because it doesn't have the compression to hold it. Mine won't drop past the compression stroke unless you hold it there for quite a while. That and the force required to pull the two saws over side by side tells me there is a pretty significant difference in compression. Mine acted this way new as well.
Compression is a pretty big power factor. Friction definitely plays a role. I don't believe it's as significant as compression though.
My ported and polished g288 clone really did have more power after 5 tanks of fuel. I ran it like I stole it and it got much better, more compression smoother, it has a domed piston and I run a Tsumura 32” bar with 3/8” full comp chipper chain.
BradSt
ArboristSite Operative
Has anyone else actually measured cranking compression changes from new to broken in? My 462 gained about 5psi. I've seen cranking compression vary more due to atmospheric conditions and engine temp. Also, cranking compression isn't running compression. When the engine is running 12k rpm, there isn't very much time for compression to leak past the rings. Just a tiny fraction of a second. Contrary to what most believe, cast iron rings actually seat pretty quickly against freshly honed nikasil. The stuff about 15 tanks...no. They're pretty well seated within a couple tanks of fuel. Don't believe me? Pull the jug and take a look at the rings.
Confirmation bias is a real thing. People believe what their preconceived ideas have told them to expect. How many here notice the difference in their saws performance between a 20* day and an 80* day, for those that live in the north? The math says that's a 6% difference in power output (.25 hp on a 261), if air pressure and humidity remain the same. I'll be honest...I can't tell by feel or sound. There are too many variables between each time I cut.
Why don't you time your saw against your uncle's, same log, both brand new chains, back to back, and see the results for yourself. If Redbull were still around, I'm sure we could get him to do a test.
Confirmation bias is very real. How do you know you're not experiencing it now?
We have. We cut together a LOT. He got the 261 after running mine and enjoying it. He immediately mentioned his saw not cutting like mine after the first tank. I told him it would gain power after the first 10 tanks like mine did. My saw is faster in everything from 6" to larger than our 18" bars with brand new Stihl chains...regardless of whether I'm running mine or his. We'll see if his eventually catches up to mine or if mine is just a better example overall...who knows. I know my saw is significantly stronger now than it was when it was new.
EDIT: I've done m-tronic resets on both before racing them as well...tried to make it as fair as possible...mine is always faster by a decent amount. I don't stop watch them though, so I can't give you a percentage. If I had to guess it would be 10-25%
Get the phone out and video them, it does show a lot. Also swap saws and try that.
Ran these two last week, same results two different operators.
We both thought the stihl was faster.
The effect is highly exaggerated IMO. But I run a two stroke like a stole it from day one to break them in quickly.
MichMich
ArboristSite Operative
Out of interest, what's the benefits of a domed piston and a regular one? More power?
