Echo's new top handle: CS-355T

[arborealbuffoon]

I bought an Echo CS-360T top handle just to find out what he was talking about. Been running the dog living piss out of it now for quite a few years. One job alone we used it to limb over 70 pine trees on an Estate in Deleware Ohio. It has good power for the cc's, dead solid reliable, and still hasn't developed the "death rattle" we were told was common for this model.

I guess that we know how to mix fuel and adjust carburetors here. Pretty likely the Echo "basher" and his beer drinking buddies had one of those pathetically underpowered Echo reed valve top handle saws once, straight gassed it, and continue to bash them decades later.

I also went thru quite a few other Echo saws here, CS-440, CS-510, CS-670, CS-6700 and CS-800. I still have the CS-6700 for my "loaner" saw, and kept the CS-510. The CS-510 is pound for pound by far and above the best of the bunch. The others were/are OK, but not nearly the power to weight ratio and chain speed of the CS-510.

Just some info from a guy with a shop that works on saws and other power equipment, and cuts at least 50 cords of wood a year, but what do I know?.......Cliff

I just returned a 192t to a local dealer, which I reluctantly bought about a week ago when my 011avt's both decided not to run in a tree. Took home a nos 360t instead. Real service like that is hard to beat, and I gotta plug this dealer for that.

I am not a very patient guy when I am climbing and a saw craps out. I understand that climbing puts unique stresses on a saw, but poor designs and no reliability is just unacceptable. And, I really turn purple in the face when some 600 plus dollar saw fails. I gotta say, without trying to stir up some huge AS trainwreck here, that I am finally sick and tired of messing with German saws. They were replaced in my stable years ago for every sized saw except an arborist's top handle. And, yesterday I evicted 'em from that slot in the fleet. Feels good, too.

I am curiously optimistic about this little Echo, and heartened to hear of your positive experience with one.

 

[Cliff R]

I used the CS-360T for quite a few outings to see how it did in stock form. It required carb adjustments right out of the box, WAY too lean and the limiter caps had to be removed to achieve ideal settings. Failure to do this would have "smoked" the P/C in short order, and may be where some of the bad "rap" comes from with this model.

It is a difficult saw to adjust, having a built in rev-limiter, so you have to sneak up on the ideal "H" speed screw setting.

After owning it for a short time, I decided to split the muffler and remove the CAT. BIG wake up call for the saw, improving power and torque at every rpm.

Negatives are that it is a tad "bulky" for a top handle, and the rev-limiter kicks in easily. It gets used couple of times a week, and after several years not one single problem in any area. I suspect those who have had problems, and smoked P/C's, don't have a clue how to correctly adjust a carburetor....FWIW......Cliff

 

[MCW]

I suspect those who have had problems, and smoked P/C's, don't have a clue how to correctly adjust a carburetor....FWIW......Cliff

Or perhaps they simply assumed that the Echo dealer would have set it up properly to start with? If you have to trim H limiters from the factory to tune the saw properly then unfortunately it is actually a problem with the saw, not the user (well actually it's a problem with EPA regs but that's another story...)
If you have to trim the H tab on a new 360T or 355T and something goes wrong then you will void your warranty - simple as that. This isn't limited to Echo either as I've seen the same issue with US delivered MS261's and MS201T's coming too lean from the factory. Australian delivered saws are set richer and tend to have better performance in my experience (apart from the AT/M-Tronics).

 

[Cliff R]

The saws must meet EPA standards in place at the time of manufacture.

Problem is, that the saws will be delivered to various parts of the Country/World, where fuel quality varies, and DA (Density Altitude) will not be the same as where they were tested. Echo in particular makes sure that the products they market will meet EPA standards. Unfortunately they will experience some P/C failures, mostly at the consumer level, and where they are purchased by folks who don't know a carburetor adjustment screw from a bar stool......FWIW.....Cliff

 

[MCW]

The saws must meet EPA standards in place at the time of manufacture.

Problem is, that the saws will be delivered to various parts of the Country/World, where fuel quality varies, and DA (Density Altitude) will not be the same as where they were tested. Echo in particular makes sure that the products they market will meet EPA standards. Unfortunately they will experience some P/C failures, mostly at the consumer level, and where they are purchased by folks who don't know a carburetor adjustment screw from a bar stool......FWIW.....Cliff

I understand that Cliff however if you have to modify and bypass the H tab on a factory delivered saw so that you can tune it properly to avoid seizing then the saw does indeed have a problem, EPA or not.
You're correct in saying that most domestic type users can't tune a saw but should they have to? 99% of people would assume a dealer delivered saw would be tuned properly to start with.

 

[tallguys]

I understand that Cliff however if you have to modify and bypass the H tab on a factory delivered saw so that you can tune it properly to avoid seizing then the saw does indeed have a problem, EPA or not.
You're correct in saying that most domestic type users can't tune a saw but should they have to? 99% of people would assume a dealer delivered saw would be tuned properly to start with.

Precisely. Someone buying a car and driving it off the lot would rightly believe that it's supposed to run as it should.

Since when did being mechanically inclined become a prerequisite to ownership?

 

[MCW]

Precisely. Someone buying a car and driving it off the lot would rightly believe that it's supposed to run as it should.

I mean we all know that some new saws are set leaner than ideal for emissions but if it is coming lean enough to seize then we have a major problem.

 

[Cliff R]

I don't own a single saw from any manufacturer that still has it's limiter caps in place.

All of the Echo saws I've owned, worked on, or tuned were pretty lean, and were begging for more fuel. It may be an assumption on my part that they would smoke the P/C, but I can tell you for certain that they wanted/needed more fuel than the factory setting(s).

I've seen this more and more with small power equipment in the past 10 years or so. Even my Honda power washer ran poorly until I opened up the main jet .002" with a precision drill bit (no adjustment).

It just makes sense to tune everything that you own so that it runs the very best that it can, and makes the most power. With two stroke engines, the fuel is also carrying the lubricant to them, so a lean mixture not only allows them to rev too high, EGT's are higher, and less oil to keep them from damaging the P/C........Cliff

 

[pgg]

cracks me up, makes absolutely no sense, people claiming themselves as "pro" users, running crappy echo tophandles instead of the undisputed best saw available in the 020/200T. sigh.. shakes head..

Now the new echo 355 tree saw, no doubt it's part of the annual echo con-job getting foisted onto the gullible and the tyros out there each season. Already there's dreamers claiming the echo 355 as good as the best tophandle saws from stihl and husky. mwaa mwaaha haha ha ha hahah ha, it'll be bulldust and nonsense coming from the clueless, don't underestimate how far away in fairyland the echo crowd can be...

Wow would I love to run a 355T for a day, I'd give ya the TRUE report don't worry. Without even running it, looking at the same puny stiff gas-lids, plastic plastic plastic everything, nothings changed, it's all just another 360T, all soggy, horrible and tacky. A pseudo digits-on-paper 20% increase in "power" won't save the echos a$$, guarantee it'll have the same rasping coarse engine characteristics as the 360T, with the same crappy trigger response, only with more vibration and an even shlttier sound. Don't waste your money , buy the pro-stihl or husky, the echos are and always will be just back-up junk to the real saws

 

[7sleeper]

cracks me up, makes absolutely no sense, people claiming themselves as "pro" users, running crappy echo tophandles instead of the undisputed best saw available in the 020/200T. sigh.. shakes head..

Now the new echo 355 tree saw, no doubt it's part of the annual echo con-job getting foisted onto the gullible and the tyros out there each season. Already there's dreamers claiming the echo 355 as good as the best tophandle saws from stihl and husky. mwaa mwaaha haha ha ha hahah ha, it'll be bulldust and nonsense coming from the clueless, don't underestimate how far away in fairyland the echo crowd can be...

Wow would I love to run a 355T for a day, I'd give ya the TRUE report don't worry. Without even running it, looking at the same puny stiff gas-lids, plastic plastic plastic everything, nothings changed, it's all just another 360T, all soggy, horrible and tacky. A pseudo digits-on-paper 20% increase in "power" won't save the echos a$$, guarantee it'll have the same rasping coarse engine characteristics as the 360T, with the same crappy trigger response, only with more vibration and an even shlttier sound. Don't waste your money , buy the pro-stihl or husky, the echos are and always will be just back-up junk to the real saws

How about buying one and giving us TRUE report where you compare it to the TH lines of Stihl, Husqvarna, Dolmar, Efco, etc.! Don't cost alot.

7

 

[mountainlake]

I mean we all know that some new saws are set leaner than ideal for emissions but if it is coming lean enough to seize then we have a major problem.

The problem is the EPA, the solution is to spend 10 minutes to adjust the carb or make sure a dealer or someone does. Steve

 

[MCW]

The problem is the EPA, the solution is to spend 10 minutes to adjust the carb or make sure a dealer or someone does. Steve

I'm aware of the EPA issues however if there is a H limiting tab that needs removing to richen the saw up for it to run properly the warranty is instantly void - even though I'm sure dealers know the problem they aren't going to remove the limiter simply to make a customer happy as technically it is against the law. I can fully understand why manufacturers have to abide by EPA laws however when new saws come set lean from the factory to the point that they could possibly seize it is actually quite serious. For example our Australian delivered saws are set a lot richer than those destined for the US market so the problem isn't widespread but still a problem nonetheless.
The sooner M-Tronic or AT is available across the range of newer saw models the better.

 

[mountainlake]

Not sure but I think dealers can and should adjust for crapola gas and alitude, if a saw is set up for non ethonal gas it will be lean with ethonal. On Echo saws the caps can be pulled, adjusted right and put back on and no one will know. Steve

 

[MCW]

Not sure but I think dealers can and should adjust for crapola gas and alitude, if a saw is set up for non ethonal gas it will be lean with ethonal. On Echo saws the caps can be pulled, adjusted right and put back on and no one will know. Steve

That's good if Echos can do that. On the 201T the H limiter has to be drilled out

 

[Cedar Row]

I bought an Echo CS-360T top handle just to find out what he was talking about. Been running the dog living piss out of it now for quite a few years. One job alone we used it to limb over 70 pine trees on an Estate in Deleware Ohio. It has good power for the cc's, dead solid reliable, and still hasn't developed the "death rattle" we were told was common for this model.

I guess that we know how to mix fuel and adjust carburetors here. Pretty likely the Echo "basher" and his beer drinking buddies had one of those pathetically underpowered Echo reed valve top handle saws once, straight gassed it, and continue to bash them decades later.

I also went thru quite a few other Echo saws here, CS-440, CS-510, CS-670, CS-6700 and CS-800. I still have the CS-6700 for my "loaner" saw, and kept the CS-510. The CS-510 is pound for pound by far and above the best of the bunch. The others were/are OK, but not nearly the power to weight ratio and chain speed of the CS-510.

Just some info from a guy with a shop that works on saws and other power equipment, and cuts at least 50 cords of wood a year, but what do I know?.......Cliff

My 360t does what I wanted it to do, it cuts well and I find it to be well balanced (I am using a 12" Echo bar and chain on it). I got it for tree work, but I have been using it for firewood to break it in. It will cut dead oak easily without stalling. It has one shortcoming that I would like to ask you about. It is slow to come up to speed from idle, and it seems that the chain is hard to get going, probably because of the hesitation in throttling up. Does your 360 do this? If not it, may be that just a carb adjustment would improve mine.

 

[Cedar Row]

Or perhaps they simply assumed that the Echo dealer would have set it up properly to start with? If you have to trim H limiters from the factory to tune the saw properly then unfortunately it is actually a problem with the saw, not the user (well actually it's a problem with EPA regs but that's another story...)
If you have to trim the H tab on a new 360T or 355T and something goes wrong then you will void your warranty - simple as that. This isn't limited to Echo either as I've seen the same issue with US delivered MS261's and MS201T's coming too lean from the factory. Australian delivered saws are set richer and tend to have better performance in my experience (apart from the AT/M-Tronics).

I have mentioned this elsewhere on this site, but again briefly: got a 360t from Baileys in the box, it started but ran poorly, took it to a local Echo dealer, while I watched, he removed the limiters, and adjusted the carb richer, then replaced the limiters. it has run well since, except for the hesitation from idle. Moral of the story: buy from a reliable dealer who will check a saw before selling it. If the dealer makes the adjustment the saw should remain under warranty.

 

[Majorpayne]

I have mentioned this elsewhere on this site, but again briefly: got a 360t from Baileys in the box, it started but ran poorly, took it to a local Echo dealer, while I watched, he removed the limiters, and adjusted the carb richer, then replaced the limiters. it has run well since, except for the hesitation from idle. Moral of the story: buy from a reliable dealer who will check a saw before selling it. If the dealer makes the adjustment the saw should remain under warranty.

Sounds like your L screw needs adjusted.

 

[Cedar Row]

Sounds like your L screw needs adjusted.

Think you are right. I'll give it a try.

 

[Majorpayne]

Think you are right. I'll give it a try.

Let it warm up before you do anything.

 

[MCW]

I have mentioned this elsewhere on this site, but again briefly: got a 360t from Baileys in the box, it started but ran poorly, took it to a local Echo dealer, while I watched, he removed the limiters, and adjusted the carb richer, then replaced the limiters. it has run well since, except for the hesitation from idle. Moral of the story: buy from a reliable dealer who will check a saw before selling it. If the dealer makes the adjustment the saw should remain under warranty.

That's fine with the Echos but I'm pretty sure if a Stihl dealer drilled out a H limiting pin it would be a different story. As you'd be aware bypassing any EPA gear on a saw is illegal so I suppose it depends on just how far your dealer is willing to push it.