How much slower is spikeless climbing?

[xtremetrees]

Lets take a easy throwball tree say a excurrent pine at 85 feet.
What would you say it would take you to throwball it trim it and stow your gear?

What whould you say to spike ti trim it and stow your gear.?

Kinda a poll Imm start here.

Id say 45 minutes to spike it and trim it

Id say 2 hrs to throw ball it trim it without spikes...

So in 5 years of being a business owner I'll have lost how much money being a C.A.?

So I'mma say spikeing is 150 % more productive.

You'll be glad to know ive only spiked 1 trim this year. Is only because I've not got alot of tree jobs. So I can give my time without charge in most cases.

Thanks in advance.

 

[treeseer]

"Id say 45 minutes to spike it and trim it

Id say 2 hrs to throw ball it trim it without spikes..."

And I'd say 40 minutes to walk up the first 32' on a ladder, then advance my rope with a telescoping polesaw9and fling bag if needed), and prune the tree. Using that polesaw means that I will not have to climb the last 14', too.

And advancing the rope that way means I will not need to re-lanyard as often as a spiker. And that means I cannot get sued when the tree is attacked by pine beetles.

xtreme if you need 2 hours to throwball the tree, you need either a lot more practice, or a new method. You do not have a C.A. problem, you have an epuipment problem.
Buy a ladder and a polesaw, and give this rant a rest.

 

[OTG BOSTON]

How many times is this subject going to be debated???:deadhorse:

People who continue to spike trees while pruning them, certified or otherwise, give all the rest of us a bad name.

If you are not up to date on current techniques, take a class or go to a climbing competition and see how the pros do it.

 

[xtremetrees]

"
.

Dude, what kinda pole saw do you own? A Jameson? Ok I admitt a polesaw is effective, but how many do you see on a million dollar tree coutfit rolling?
I'll tell you how many you'll see caused I've pushed um.. None.
You cant keep 4 guys and a grapple bobcat busy with a pole saw ill tell ya that.
Lissen Ive run across two companies out of 312-314 tree companies that employ C.A. The 310 compaiens could care less and are far more profitable.
For example I pushed one train that if it wasn't a 5 to 8 grand day we sat at home.

C.A. isn't respected down south. The clients are not educated, maybe up north where I've seen some C.A.'s come from are making a decent living.

Your technique seems plausable. Your @ 31 feet with no safety, standing on a ladder? I have used 18 feet as re-directs on large spreading crowns in Biltmore Forest in Asheville NC. We dont have trees that big around here where the limbs start at 80 feet. But a polesaw is a must have.

 

[Erwin]

Please help me out in this difficult situation!

I’m more leaning toward spikeless. However, this always puzzles me. Anyone out there can give me an honest answer?

You have a 60’ river birch with three 18” leads going up at ~45 degree relative to the ground. The tree is in the backyard, so bucket truck is out of the question. You can easily throw a line to each of the lead but how could you get up on the lead once you footlock to the the underneath of your point of tie-in? I can see if there is a decent sized branch every foot or two from the height I can get to from a ladder, I can just walk up from branch to branch until I’m done with one lead. But, what if you don’t have many branches that you can climb up with? I see similar situations often with large established silver maple too with a very big lean which makes it impossible to me to trim without spiking it. I did spike in such situation. If anyone can give me a better idea I’m willing to change. Erwin

 

[xtremetrees]

Erwin,
As you know the riverbirth is almost impossible to employ the improvised footlock technique. the branch stem union is so tight it nearly shuts down any rope movement thru its crotch.

If in doubt for safety of your life go ahead and spike it. i have found its not often maybe only once or twice a year that I have to. Keep holding to your guns bro, you'll find a way to do the tree without um, thou it might take all day.. lol Thou I am not supposed to say this being I could loose my C.A. for ethical violations in the future I will. We had a guy on here last month that fell because he had throwballed a dead/hidden tie in trying to adhear to the strict by the book standards of this site.. No worries mate, climb on.

The tree you describe remind me of live oak on the coast. you gotta squirrle out on it no matter what. There is no central tie in.
If you got a bucket truck I'm not surprised your letting them trim jobs go by your side. A bucket? Next thing you know you'll be like the other C.A.'s and pushing pencils and saying how you dont spike your trims. You can tell by the size of their backs if their a real C.A.or a business owner.

Throwball it, climb up the rope safety in, and then get on top. Try it youll like it. Now try and do that on a oily Asplund bucket boom.
Really all you can do is trim while hanging upside down. I call those days think like a bat day.

 

[OTG BOSTON]

What you are describing is what I would call a 1 percenter (as in one percent of the time) and you are right. The safety of the climber is most important.

With a lean like you have described you've got to ask yourself if you should be pruning it or removing it.

 

[OTG BOSTON]

As you know the riverbirth is almost impossible to employ the improvised footlock technique. the branch stem union is so tight it nearly shuts down any rope movement thru its crotch

FYI, In the secured footlock technique the rope does not move.

 

[xtremetrees]

Holy smoke boston does the outside of your right foot hurt you too.. haha
heres a pic just for you

 

[OTG BOSTON]

was that the correct pic?? I notice the Echo topping saw, have two myself. (I don't touch 'em anymore, now that I have the MS200T)

 

[xtremetrees]

Boston yep it is, its the newer one lightest avail. I bought it for just particular trees ie pines cut and toss. I dropped the one handed at about my 6th year because of two handed guys on this site encouraging me thou it is more difficult and more thought to two hand, my wrist dont hurt nearly as much, I still pic it up on some jobs. I need 2 more saw a mid range say a 351 or so and a large saw for a 40 inch bar. Then my collection will be complete.
The 029 in the front is the weakest of all my saws. I should have saved myself 125 $ and not bought it.

 

[OTG BOSTON]

Are you saying that you don't use a tophandle saw in the tree?? I always use two hands when cutting but always with a tophandle climbing saw.

You are right about the weight of the Echo...........superlight

 

[Erwin]

With a lean like you have described you've got to ask yourself if you should be pruning it or removing it.

Thanks, everyone for very honest answers. I feel a lot better now. OTG BOSTON, FYI, There are lot’s of silver maples here have over or close to 45 degree leaning limbs or leads. I have one in my backyard that is over 150 year old. The trunk measures 4.8’ diameter and 30’ long. From there up there is no center lead, only a two-leads folk with each leg folks into two. I’m doing everything possible to preserve this tree (though it’s not as precious as the 200 year old white oak in the front yard, it old enough to be preserved) because I have a big swing hanging from 55’ high for my 4 kids. All the lead are leaning badly. However the joints seem to be strong enough to have supported the tree for over 100 years. Just the passed Saturday, I trimmed of a dead leaning branch from the tree. The logs I got down to the ground measures 22”. It’s too big to be called a branch. Erwin

 

[Ekka]

Xtremetrees.

What about the Mitchell Rope climbing system etc, they're fast.

And if you do trims regularly you should invest in one coz from what I have seen you'll be up there in a Jiffy and can use the system as a false crotch to work from, so over shoot your target limb for a high point.

I understand the ethical dilemas you are circulating in your head. Around here 90% of trims are spiked, and there's no repercussions for doing so. I am yet to see a tree die from spiking.

I spike palms for trimming all the time but not trees.

For the guys who wonder about getting around unusual limbs or leans .... remember that your rope has 2 ends, take another prussik with you and use the other end.

I have in the past set 2 crotches, one to get the altitude and the other to pull myself over to the target limb.

To solve your dilema and sleep easy at night, give the customer 2 prices and let them decide, if they go for the cheaper spiking ... it was their choice. If there are local regs you better not offer it though.

My 0.02

 

[coydog]

if it takes you that much longer to prune it spikeless it's because you are an inexperienced and/or mediocre/poor climber without your hooks on. its probably a lot faster to leave stubs and tear cuts too. Oh did I say that out loud? are the c.a. police gonna come and strip my c.a. away from me?
idiocy

 

[matty f]

Well i suppose your right 2 hours 1 hour maybe to throw ball.... but its not right to spike and i have no respect for any one who thinks it is in my conditions of work.....you on the other hand work in a different country,climate ,trees and work conditions that i know nothing about so i cant really comment.Like clearance and others doing wind firming ........we dont do it in the uk but i it would not be economically viable to throw ball every tree.

 

[beowulf343]

I think it depends on how much experience a person has with each method. For example, I only climb 5 or 6 trees a month without spikes just to keep in practice and to try out new gear. I am MUCH faster with my spikes. But I have seen other guys who can climb just as fast without them as I can with them. By the way, is clearance banned for good or is he coming back?

 

[treeseer]

Erwin you got riverbirch in MO that shed 22" limbs? Big trees.

Birches in WI and NC I pull branches over to me using a flip line, then prune em with a pole or by saw. I've never had to spike a birch--fast-rotting trees they are--and I've climbed one that was close to state champ.

 

[inztrees]

clearnce

why did he get banded?

 

[woodville]

Bucket truck beats all!