How much slower is spikeless climbing?

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space mule thats a riot

Oh id love to do that to these pencil pushing geekwad home owners, oh its like ther perverbable inch ill never scratch.
lol nice putfile
 
I'd say ladder and pole are fastest. I can tie in in just a few minutes at fifty or sixty feet, even if that is where the lowest branches are. I have used spikes on trims---only on the part of the tree that is to be removed. I don't think cutting dozens of holes in the cambium is good for the tree. Sometimes I do trees with massive bases, I wonder how it could be fliplined. I don't think competition is a good idea. Remember rock descent? On Wide World of Sports? It only lasted a couple of weeks, the winners basically jumped off a cliff to be the first one down.
 
BIG shot

Today we showed up onsite to remove two leaning 'pekker-poles' my co-climber likes to call them...120 foot tall douglas fir trees with about a 12-14" diameter from the dirt up...no taper. They each had a little 'puff' of canopy in the top 20 feet or so, an obvious photo-tropism as those guys raced for sunlight only available above the canopy of the larger firs around them.

Let me be clear that I am no salesman for Sherrill, or anyone for that matter, but at 9:00am I got that big shot out and by 9:05, with two shots, I had a 10 oz. throwbag and line over a nice cluster of three strong branches at the collar at around 80 feet in a neighboring larger, tapering fir for rigging our tops and poles down...and ourselves although my co-worker didn't bother with that part but that's for another discussion. Only reason it took two shots is because I drew waaaay down on the first one and launched the line threw one side of the canopy, possibly OVER the 'helper' tree and down through the other side of the crown! The bag returned and everything! Because we couldn't see what I was anchored to...probably the top...I untied my bag, retracted the line and used much less power on the second shot. We ended up rigging down the worse of the leaners taking nice 13' logs, no problemo, and for the straighter pole we shot the top with the bigshot, ran a rigging line up with the running bowline and pulled it down through a crease in the canopy with a notch at the base...more logs. The big shot WORKS! In many large tree situations it's a major time saver. We sure didn't need to spike that helper fir out just to set a line, nor did we need any clunky ladders or pole saws and all that, though I will say those tools have their place in our field as well.

That's my 3 cents.
 
Today in a 61/2 hour day I climbed a few trees. First I climbed about 100' up a hemlock, topped it and swung into a big hemlock that co-domed at about 120' into two stems that went to about 180', topped both stems and cut off some branches. Then I climbed another three hemlocks, all single climbs, 90' to 110' where I came down after topping them, then a sitka spruce that was about 110' where I topped it. Plus a couple of little hemlocks I could get from trees I was in. Relax, I am windfirming trees to stop them from blowing down into creeks, prune it and top it or it blows down in the violent winds up here. The trees we do only have to last for 15-20 years until the understory grows up to shade the creek. Anyways, could you climb up like 500-600' spurless, and run a saw on the way up in 61/2 hours? I mean every day? I'm bushed right now, back tomorrow. I understand spurless climbing nice trees in peoples yards, its all good, could you do my job spurless, and would you want to? Mike, I have climbed lots of skinny pecker poles, second growth ones are scary, they bend and bend, move around like crazy from your wieght without any wind, hard to get used to.
 
Clearance, ha you have absolutely ruined the trees you've topped so i don't suppose few spike marks will matter will they
 
Clearance, glad to have you back. The spurless tree huggers were starting to take over the site!! But you are right. Just last week I had to climb and rig 19 black cherry trees for a local logging company. They were simple-climb up 75-80 feet, tie in, set the tip line, come down, and move on to the next one.(Had a crew cutting and dropping behind me.) But I only had 4 hours in which to do the job-the logging company had to be off the property by the end of the day.(I was able to get it done in time but talk about whipped-I haven't done that much up and down in a long time-usually i go up and stay up for a while.) Alot of the "arborists" sound like they know what they are doing, but I sometimes wonder if they have any actual tree experience outside of books and rec climbing. (Oh, by the way, I spiked the whole job.) Could these trees have been climbed spikeless? Yes, no doubt. Could they have been done in 4 hours? I don't know.
 
Clearance, I definitely could do your job spurless...would I want to...no. The situation you described is radically different from mine in that these trees we were 'borrowing' for lines are right over some upper-scale backyards and are old prized, visible and very valuable trees. Even the common layman would wonder what the heck we were doing if spiking them up and believe me, people were watching. They didn't have to watch very long though, we were in and out of there in a couple of hours mostly spent cutting/cleaning/loading logs. In summary I guess I don't understand the comparison as yours sounds like a very different operation for sure!

Mike those trees actually do the wave when you move on them. Not so much when the top is on, mostly they bend back and forth with the lean at that point but once that top is gone to counter the stem the trunk wobbles all over the place and it really is hard to get used to. I tie into another tree when I can but that's not always an option. My buddie has much more confidence in those little firs and spikes right up there even when there is the rappel line option. He's 'used' to them. Sure makes the larger diameter trees feel safe no matter how high you go up!

beowulf343 why not spike trees that are being taken down for a logging company? I sure would, nobody is saying spikes have no place in arboriculture but if that's all you know than stick to removals. Don't knock other people for cracking a book and diversifying their skills...or for trying to take care of peoples invested interest in their trees by using ropes instead of spikes on a trim. These people up here are more than happy to pay top $$ for good longterm care of their trees and if your company spikes up it's reputation you will be swallowed by the industry here...many tree services...and you'll have to resort to undercutting and probably underbidding, etc.

Just my humble opinion.
 
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Jim1NZ said:
Clearance, ha you have absolutely ruined the trees you've topped so i don't suppose few spike marks will matter will they
Wolf 343, Hi. Jim, I guess you have never been in an old growth rain forest and seen what I have. The trees are not ruined, they will live on. This is coastal British Columbia, the growing season is about 11 months, the trees are pretty tough. I remember cutting down big second growth Douglas firs in Hope, B.C., they had been topped probably 40-50 years previously and regrown another 60', so much for ruined. In the old growth you will see trees that have had thier big tops ripped off by the wind, trees that have been ground to sky sidelimbed by falling trees, trees that have been mutilated from falling trees that have extensive rot and even other trees growing from them still alive. Did you not read what I said about why I do my job?
 
gitrdun_climbr said:
beowulf343 why not spike trees that are being taken down for a logging company? I sure would, nobody is saying spikes have no place in arboriculture but if that's all you know than stick to removals. Don't knock other people for cracking a book and diversifying their skills...or for trying to take care of peoples invested interest in their trees by using ropes instead of spikes on a trim. These people up here are more than happy to pay top $$ for good longterm care of their trees and if your company spikes up it's reputation you will be swallowed by the industry here...many tree services...and you'll have to resort to undercutting and probably underbidding, etc.
Gitrdun, I'm glad you see it this way. But alot of guys think that spikes are a tool of the devil and have no place in tree work. I will admit, I am fond of my spikes but I spent three years at the beginning of my career trimming without them. I think we(I) just need to realize that some jobs need spikes and some jobs don't and we are all just treemen doing a job we love to make a living!
 
Agreed, spikes are the #$%@ and sure make some of these removals easier. In an urban environment where trees face so many obstacles (compaction, pollution, mechanical damages, etc.) and are highly visible I can't imagine 'needing' to damage the cambium to fix a branch though and this seems to be where alot of guys side with the faster dollar or the longterm health of the tree. With a climbing line in the top and a flipline on the trunk you can almost walk up the trunk with the flats of the feet, safely. I actually enjoy foot jamming, leg locks and the creativity involved in slinking around a canopy removing deadwood and rubbers. The feeling is even better when I walk through with the homeowner after and they say something like, 'wow, I can't even tell you were up there and the tree looks great!'
 
Spiking is for removals only in my case. For a pruning job on average it takes 2-3 shots with a thowbag and you set your line. Then 2 minutes max. if you take it easy to foot lock 100' with my kong ascender. Just seems like a no brainer to me. I tend to move around alot and pretty fast. With spikes on a would be getting stitches at least once a week or just go slower. But going slow isn't the idea. Right? In the bush it is different. You aren't pruning you are hacking plain and simple.
Beowulf if you are just setting a line in the cherries why climb it in the first place when you could just throwball it. If you are good you could be done within and hour, hour and a half. 75-80' throws are pretty easy.
 
Climb020, good point about setting the lines from the ground, and I thought about doing it that way. However, all these trees were hanging right over a transmission line (which was why they needed to be rigged in the first place.) I suck with a throwbag for anything over 50 feet (yeah, I know, not enough practice) and it can ruin your day when you use a bigshot and the rope settles over the branch then drops right between the power lines or over the branch and then over all three lines.:laugh:

(Where was the power company? Who knows, the logging outfit had been waiting for them for over a month before they called us.)
 
beowulf343 said:
Climb020, good point about setting the lines from the ground, and I thought about doing it that way. However, all these trees were hanging right over a transmission line (which was why they needed to be rigged in the first place.) I suck with a throwbag for anything over 50 feet (yeah, I know, not enough practice) and it can ruin your day when you use a bigshot and the rope settles over the branch then drops right between the power lines or over the branch and then over all three lines.:laugh:

(Where was the power company? Who knows, the logging outfit had been waiting for them for over a month before they called us.)
Ah yes, the power lines, funny, funny. A while back there was a discussion over wearing spurs to climb around power, I posed the question "how can you get up a tree if the first branch is higher than the primary" Treeco, in his wisdom said "ever heard of a throwbag?", in a mocking way. Then there followed a discussion of ropes of any kind being dielectrically tested, limits of approach and so on. One chap, I forget who, said that he would use a Jamieson pole pruner with four or five extensions to set his climbing line, right. Treeco, the trees I windfirm will never be logged, they are in riparian zones. And I never said all trees in Canada around powerlines are spurred, in British Columbia they are. And all of the ISA certified guys I have ever worked with climb trims with spurs, deal with it, as you will not do anything about it but whine. We will soon put it to rest, who's we?
 
I just thought of something. Do people climb spikeless because they care about the tree or because there have been so many horror stories about spike related injuries. I was out with some climbing buddies last week and we got into hospital visit stories. These guys all work for Asplundh as residential, backyard trimmers. They have a combined time of over 50 years working on spikes, yet only one guy had ever had to go to the hospital for a spike injury! It seems if you are careful, know how to use spikes, and wear the proper boots(no sneakers), you can keep from stabbing flesh. I have over seven years on spikes with no puncture wounds yet (knock on wood.)
 

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