What oil ratio do you run? This will also change octane (oil is harder to ignite than gas). Keep in mind the recommended octane ratings are generally for 50:1 ratio.
Masterminded 362c 87 octane vs 94
- Thread starter KG441c
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What oil ratio do you run? This will also change octane (oil is harder to ignite than gas). Keep in mind the recommended octane ratings are generally for 50:1 ratio.
32:1 is all I run.
Keith, don't down play the importance of what you provide. All new information is good to have, and then we can try to debate the "why" etc. For example, M-Tronic may be making adjustments to compensate for the increased octane. I don't know if that is the case, but it is an interesting possibility that may warrant additional testing. Keep up the good work, we all appreciate additional information (which hopefully leads to more knowledge).
Were you able to run any temp readings? I have heard that higher octane lowers the temp, but I would like to see some evidence. Thanks.
KG441c
Keith
When I test some chains Mike Ill run some 110 and 87 and check temps
Mastermind
Work Saw Specialist
What Mike said........don't discount what you are doing here.
You've got the wheels spinning in my head. That's a good thing........I never want to get stagnate.
You've got the wheels spinning in my head. That's a good thing........I never want to get stagnate.
It's always good to try and experiment empirically(by means of direct observation). Hearsay and anecdotes are rife, especially in the internet age. What many are trying to say here is it is also important to make the results repeatable and to limit the amount of cross contamination/extraneous factors/variables. To do so you need to reliably repeat the process you are doing. You want the control (the wood) to be the same every time, both before and after with the saw or saws(the subject(s)). You also want the execution to be as similar as possible. You also want as large a sample as possible. What you have is a good start. However, how the subjects are used is observationally very different in your video, and the sampling is very minimal. It makes it difficult to draw any sort of conclusion from the data you provide. The more scientific the method, the more repeatable, and the larger the sample, the less controversy usually follows.
KG441c
Keith
I know the wood is a huge factor and my technique was a huge factor. I tried to make 2 parallel cuts and 2 working saw cuts and average. Overall the mess of a test did kinda show a very slight edge with the 94 for some reason? Id love to see 87 and 110 on Chads dyno. That would be more represenative of the truth
KG441c
Keith
I bet when Randy gets his dyno he will be as excited as a monkey cuttin up in a fresh batch of bananas
Too bad the 461 does not have M-tronic, or that would be a good candidate for testing octane on Chad's dyno.
You hit the nail on the head Keith, your observations provide an opportunity for further testing (like on Chad's dyno) to either confirm or refute, but information & results presented objectively are always valuable. Thanks for taking the time to do it.
You hit the nail on the head Keith, your observations provide an opportunity for further testing (like on Chad's dyno) to either confirm or refute, but information & results presented objectively are always valuable. Thanks for taking the time to do it.
Doing that with a Ford 3-cyl 2000 right now, whole fuel system full of gel. E 10 has made me get a sonic cleaner. Works good on cartridge cleaning too.
I ran/built very high compression cars back when you could drive to the airport, fill up, then do a burnout/weeile for the attendant. We could still get the purple and green AV fuel then ( >> 100 octane).
HuskStihl
Chairin'em for the sound
These are great threads and really highlight the benefits of dyno testing. Just some random scientific observations
1) premium gas doesn't have any more "energy/power" than regular. A gallon of each produces the same number of BTU's. It isn't denser or "better", it is only more resistant to detonation
2) these tests will be difficult due to the variability in pump gas. The stuff oxides and can both lose its potential energy and resistance to detonation (again, not the same thing) with age and storage conditions
3) m-tronic (and I obviously cannot be 100% certain, but it's close) does not monitor for detonation in the combustion chamber and alter timing based on the fuels resistance to detonation
As a disclaimer, due to my inherent belief that my saws are awesome, and should have the "best" fuel, I run brand name premium from a busy station with belray at 32:1('cause 24:1 would be nuts
). All the science in the world is not gonna convince the chainsaw part of my brain that 87 isn't crap, that premium doesn't have more "power", and that my saws would explode on any sort of less expensive fuel.
PS, the 230psi 288 lives in my garage, and I apologize to it daily that that mean mdavlee put 87 into it
1) premium gas doesn't have any more "energy/power" than regular. A gallon of each produces the same number of BTU's. It isn't denser or "better", it is only more resistant to detonation
2) these tests will be difficult due to the variability in pump gas. The stuff oxides and can both lose its potential energy and resistance to detonation (again, not the same thing) with age and storage conditions
3) m-tronic (and I obviously cannot be 100% certain, but it's close) does not monitor for detonation in the combustion chamber and alter timing based on the fuels resistance to detonation
As a disclaimer, due to my inherent belief that my saws are awesome, and should have the "best" fuel, I run brand name premium from a busy station with belray at 32:1('cause 24:1 would be nuts
). All the science in the world is not gonna convince the chainsaw part of my brain that 87 isn't crap, that premium doesn't have more "power", and that my saws would explode on any sort of less expensive fuel.PS, the 230psi 288 lives in my garage, and I apologize to it daily that that mean mdavlee put 87 into it
KG441c
Keith
Lol! AgreeThese are great threads and really highlight the benefits of dyno testing. Just some random scientific observations
1) premium gas doesn't have any more "energy/power" than regular. A gallon of each produces the same number of BTU's. It isn't denser or "better", it is only more resistant to detonation
2) these tests will be difficult due to the variability in pump gas. The stuff oxides and can both lose its potential energy and resistance to detonation (again, not the same thing) with age and storage conditions
3) m-tronic (and I obviously cannot be 100% certain, but it's close) does not monitor for detonation in the combustion chamber and alter timing based on the fuels resistance to detonation
As a disclaimer, due to my inherent belief that my saws are awesome, and should have the "best" fuel, I run brand name premium from a busy station with belray at 32:1('cause 24:1 would be nuts
PS, the 230psi 288 lives in my garage, and I apologize to it daily that that mean mdavlee put 87 into it
Mastermind
Work Saw Specialist
I can only get non E in 87. That dictates what I'll be using.......no E fuels will be used in my saws.
Jon, I hear what your are saying, and many good points, but M-Tronic does adjust timing based on temp and other factors (perhaps it experiments). I'm not sure exactly how it works or what it modifies, but if it can compensate for porting, etc, it would not surprise me if it can compensate for octane (perhaps because it runs cooler), I don't know, but I believe it is a possibility.
And you are correct that premium fuel does not have more energy, but it enables an engine to have higher compression, and higher compression will produce more power. It may also enable more timing advance, which may also produce more power.
And you are correct that premium fuel does not have more energy, but it enables an engine to have higher compression, and higher compression will produce more power. It may also enable more timing advance, which may also produce more power.
sunfish
Fish Head
I can only get E-free in 91 octane. So that is what I run...
These are great threads and really highlight the benefits of dyno testing. Just some random scientific observations
1) premium gas doesn't have any more "energy/power" than regular. A gallon of each produces the same number of BTU's. It isn't denser or "better", it is only more resistant to detonation
2) these tests will be difficult due to the variability in pump gas. The stuff oxides and can both lose its potential energy and resistance to detonation (again, not the same thing) with age and storage conditions
3) m-tronic (and I obviously cannot be 100% certain, but it's close) does not monitor for detonation in the combustion chamber and alter timing based on the fuels resistance to detonation
As a disclaimer, due to my inherent belief that my saws are awesome, and should have the "best" fuel, I run brand name premium from a busy station with belray at 32:1('cause 24:1 would be nuts
PS, the 230psi 288 lives in my garage, and I apologize to it daily that that mean mdavlee put 87 into it
Fresh 87 figure was better than stale 93.
KG441c
Keith
Im wondering about the quality of vp or sunoco canned fuel vs pump gas?
Ron660
Addicted to ArboristSite
Yes, he meant 12.8:1.
Mastermind
Work Saw Specialist
Where are y'all getting a 12.8:1 compression ratio?
Ron660
Addicted to ArboristSite
I don't think the 110 octane will be beneficial in the 362....compression to low. Maybe a few octane higher but more than that I'll bet it wouldn't be beneficial. The small amount of testing I've done, along with Keith's' testing, the compression ratio chart I have has been 100% correct.
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