Nope. ProX. I'm sure it's all that much more important for a forged piston, considering they expand more than a cast one. The ProX offered greater than factory strength without having to machine for a piston that was loose in a cold engine.
New P&C Break in Period
- Thread starter drgnarr
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Nope. ProX. I'm sure it's all that much more important for a forged piston, considering they expand more than a cast one. The ProX offered greater than factory strength without having to machine for a piston that was loose in a cold engine.
Well the baseball game is over, so I might as well make another post.
The thread got a little complicated, and I did not intend to mention this, but Brad Snelling has brought this idea up, so here goes, and I am not making this up.
On all my new saws, I start the saw and let it idle for 5 minutes or so. I shut it down and let it cool.
I repeat the process 8 times, and mark each time on the box to keep up with it.
Then I still do not run WOT out of the cut except to tune until after 3 tanks of cutting trees per the Stihl owners manual.
I did not dream this process up, of starting, idle, and cool down,someone that I know and trust told me.
So, I am wondering, does any one else on this forum do this ,or has anyone even heard about it.
When I lay down what is big money to me for a saw, I am going to do my best to take care of it. I guess if some one else is paying, I might take a different approach, or maybe not. I take care of and keep up everything I own, so I probably would not abuse someone else's equipment either,
This is honestly the way that I do it, and right or wrong, It works for me.
I have never melted one down, scored a piston or cylinder.
This forum is informative and a lot of fun, and I sure don't know everything. Matter of fact, I don't know much compared to most of the guys here.
The thread got a little complicated, and I did not intend to mention this, but Brad Snelling has brought this idea up, so here goes, and I am not making this up.
On all my new saws, I start the saw and let it idle for 5 minutes or so. I shut it down and let it cool.
I repeat the process 8 times, and mark each time on the box to keep up with it.
Then I still do not run WOT out of the cut except to tune until after 3 tanks of cutting trees per the Stihl owners manual.
I did not dream this process up, of starting, idle, and cool down,someone that I know and trust told me.
So, I am wondering, does any one else on this forum do this ,or has anyone even heard about it.
When I lay down what is big money to me for a saw, I am going to do my best to take care of it. I guess if some one else is paying, I might take a different approach, or maybe not. I take care of and keep up everything I own, so I probably would not abuse someone else's equipment either,
This is honestly the way that I do it, and right or wrong, It works for me.
I have never melted one down, scored a piston or cylinder.
This forum is informative and a lot of fun, and I sure don't know everything. Matter of fact, I don't know much compared to most of the guys here.
kevlar
Addicted to ArboristSite
Well the baseball game is over, so I might as well make another post.
The thread got a little complicated, and I did not intend to mention this, but Brad Snelling has brought this idea up, so here goes, and I am not making this up.
On all my new saws, I start the saw and let it idle for 5 minutes or so. I shut it down and let it cool.
I repeat the process 8 times, and mark each time on the box to keep up with it.
Then I still do not run WOT out of the cut except to tune until after 3 tanks of cutting trees per the Stihl owners manual.
I did not dream this process up, of starting, idle, and cool down,someone that I know and trust told me.
So, I am wondering, does any one else on this forum do this ,or has anyone even heard about it.
When I lay down what is big money to me for a saw, I am going to do my best to take care of it. I guess if some one else is paying, I might take a different approach, or maybe not. I take care of and keep up everything I own, so I probably would not abuse someone else's equipment either,
This is honestly the way that I do it, and right or wrong, It works for me.
I have never melted one down, scored a piston or cylinder.
This forum is informative and a lot of fun, and I sure don't know everything. Matter of fact, I don't know much compared to most of the guys here.
Man, if I told a logger to do to his new saw what you do to your new saw I would get punched in the mouth. Running up saws before they leave the dealer is Stihl's policy if they find a dealer is not doing this they stand to lose Stihl.
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I didn't say to tell a logger to do that. I only said that is what I do, and I don't try to force that on anyone else.
I respect your knowledge. I am sure that you know more than me.
kevlar
Addicted to ArboristSite
In reallity there is nothing wrong with what you are doing,except it is way,way anal.
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eyolf
Addicted to ArboristSite
I bought a new Jonsered 670 quite a few years ago, and the dealer made a big deal of the "new" Nikasyl bore coating, over the old chrome plating of older engines. I asked then if there was anything different about break-in.
"Well, let it idle a little more than normal during the first 1/2 tank to make certain to get plenty of oil laying in the crankcase. Never know how good a job they do at the factory"
Saw lasted until 2006, running strong until sidelined by a bad diaghragm not pumping enough fuel...lean sieze, and totally my fault. I heard it winding a little tight, and could have stopped it, but there was just a little bit more to cut...
"Well, let it idle a little more than normal during the first 1/2 tank to make certain to get plenty of oil laying in the crankcase. Never know how good a job they do at the factory"
Saw lasted until 2006, running strong until sidelined by a bad diaghragm not pumping enough fuel...lean sieze, and totally my fault. I heard it winding a little tight, and could have stopped it, but there was just a little bit more to cut...
dingeryote
Blueberry Baron
Well the baseball game is over, so I might as well make another post.
The thread got a little complicated, and I did not intend to mention this, but Brad Snelling has brought this idea up, so here goes, and I am not making this up.
On all my new saws, I start the saw and let it idle for 5 minutes or so. I shut it down and let it cool.
I repeat the process 8 times, and mark each time on the box to keep up with it.
Then I still do not run WOT out of the cut except to tune until after 3 tanks of cutting trees per the Stihl owners manual.
I did not dream this process up, of starting, idle, and cool down,someone that I know and trust told me.
So, I am wondering, does any one else on this forum do this ,or has anyone even heard about it.
When I lay down what is big money to me for a saw, I am going to do my best to take care of it. I guess if some one else is paying, I might take a different approach, or maybe not. I take care of and keep up everything I own, so I probably would not abuse someone else's equipment either,
This is honestly the way that I do it, and right or wrong, It works for me.
I have never melted one down, scored a piston or cylinder.
This forum is informative and a lot of fun, and I sure don't know everything. Matter of fact, I don't know much compared to most of the guys here.
I hear ya on bieng carefull not to trash a valuable tool, but it can be over done. I'm a bit anal about some things, but break in ain't one of 'em.
The thing needs to be heat cycled with the carb set a smidge rich, and let the mating surfaces get to know each other without becoming one.
I just cut normally for 5 Min. and stop for 10 or so, and repeat several times while running good 2 cycle mix and fuel.
Just avoid noodling and heavy bucking for the first several tankfulls after that while cutting normally.
It's under warranty and it costs $$$ for warranty work, so if the manufacturers were concerned with anal retentive, multi-step, and hyper cautious break in, they woulda done it at the factory where it oculd be controlled.
Jest my .02
Stay safe!
Dingeryote
Justsaws
Addicted to ArboristSite
Break the saw engine in the same way you break the chain in.
Wax the bar though, otherwise it will bend easy.oke:
Wax the bar though, otherwise it will bend easy.
oke:
Fish
Tree Freak
I just outlined how saws go out the door at most Stihl dealers, usually some
sales kid does the "tuning", usually the owner's son, because he cannot do much anyway.....
With the limiter caps, they cannot be tuned very well anyway, and the owner would blow a gasket if one of his mechanics spent a lot of time
tuning by pulling the limiter caps.
That one big dealer I worked for in Louisville, they were very concerned
about their mechanic's time and production, the sales and parts guys could
go outside every 10 minutes for a smoke, but the mechanics had to keep
working.
So their idea of "tuning" was just turning the idle screw up so it would keep running at idle, and send it out the door. If it wouldn't keep running, they would grab another, and the first saw would get a work order written
up for repair. No one of them would use a tach.
For the most part, pretty much every dealer I have ever worked for ,
would be mad at me if I spent much time prepping a saw.
If I had the time, I would run the saw a little with the bar and chain off
until the bar oil started pumping, then install the bar. Otherwise, I wouldn't
worry about it much, but would set the high end with a tach, and you have
to run it full throttle to set it. Babying a saw set too lean would be much more harmful than setting it correctly in the first place, and then use it
normally.
I am rebuilding a 290 right now that is quite new, and the piston was
horribly seized, and the high speed screw set too lean was the only
fault I found, probably was that way from day 1.
If it was correctly set at the dealer, the guy would be still cutting with it.
sales kid does the "tuning", usually the owner's son, because he cannot do much anyway.....
With the limiter caps, they cannot be tuned very well anyway, and the owner would blow a gasket if one of his mechanics spent a lot of time
tuning by pulling the limiter caps.
That one big dealer I worked for in Louisville, they were very concerned
about their mechanic's time and production, the sales and parts guys could
go outside every 10 minutes for a smoke, but the mechanics had to keep
working.
So their idea of "tuning" was just turning the idle screw up so it would keep running at idle, and send it out the door. If it wouldn't keep running, they would grab another, and the first saw would get a work order written
up for repair. No one of them would use a tach.
For the most part, pretty much every dealer I have ever worked for ,
would be mad at me if I spent much time prepping a saw.
If I had the time, I would run the saw a little with the bar and chain off
until the bar oil started pumping, then install the bar. Otherwise, I wouldn't
worry about it much, but would set the high end with a tach, and you have
to run it full throttle to set it. Babying a saw set too lean would be much more harmful than setting it correctly in the first place, and then use it
normally.
I am rebuilding a 290 right now that is quite new, and the piston was
horribly seized, and the high speed screw set too lean was the only
fault I found, probably was that way from day 1.
If it was correctly set at the dealer, the guy would be still cutting with it.
I haven't seen it addressed directly (might have missed it), but I think I can clear up your confusion Fish. My understanding is that the break in is primarily for the seal between the ring(s) and the cylinder, which is the reason that high rpms are to be avoided. High rpms will result in glazing instead of proper seating (the ring(s) and cylinder wearing against each other) because the heat breaks down the oil. Once glaze forms, then there is no further seating between the ring(s) and cylinder.
Because heat is the cause of glazing, cutting large logs also is a bad idea. Recommendations of nothing larger that 6" are common, and make sense.
You won't ruin the saw if you don't "baby" it...you simply will stop the process of seating by generating a glaze, resulting in a less effective seal.
I find the recommendation to use only mineral oil for the break in to be interesting, because mineral oil breaks down more easily when heated, which should make glazing more likely. Perhaps the less-efficient lubrication of mineral oil makes the seating process go more quickly...
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Fish
Tree Freak
So, then in an experiment, one could run a saw normally, after setting the
carb with a tach at full rpm, and cut heavily the first tank.
And it would have less compression than one {broken in} run lightly for 3
tanks.
carb with a tach at full rpm, and cut heavily the first tank.
And it would have less compression than one {broken in} run lightly for 3
tanks.
The premise is sound, but like the fabled connecting rods, it would be difficult to answer the question just comparing the compression of 2 saws that were broken in differently. The logistics of using a meaningful number of saws (5 or more, depending on the variation in compression) is prohibitive, but there are some refinements that could be made to the observations that might help (although it still would be just one saw vs another).
I would suggest looking at the "pattern" of changes in compression. For a low rpm, small log break in, one would expect a continued increase in compression as the rings "seated", while (in theory) running the nertz off of the saw from the get go should produce an improvement in compression that levels off much more quickly. There are plenty of reasons why one saw might have a higher final compression than the other, but it is the pattern of change in compression over the first 5 tanks or so that would test the theory and provide useful information.
Justsaws
Addicted to ArboristSite
Break in time for the non-stratos seems to be around 10 tankfuls before any noticeable difference and usually more before a need to tweak the tunings regardless of type of oil.
Most saws are never re-tuned and never had a break in regiment.
I have never seen an oil glazed 2 cycle plated cylinder.
I would suspect that if a manufacturer could get a way with it they would recommend the saw not be used at all until the warranty was up. The average saw user does not run a saw enough to "break it in" for years.
Pull some cylinders and take a peek. Measure the rings and gap before and after. If heat cycling made a difference the manufacture would have to do it as the consumer is not going to and warranty claims would be huge.
Anyone who wants to "baby" a saw is more than welcome to but it is wasted effort.
Also, do not buy a saw off the shelf because those saws have been pulled over dry and then run WOT alot.
Trade show demo saws get run WOT straight out of the box all day long. Better skip those also.
Most saws are never re-tuned and never had a break in regiment.
I have never seen an oil glazed 2 cycle plated cylinder.
I would suspect that if a manufacturer could get a way with it they would recommend the saw not be used at all until the warranty was up. The average saw user does not run a saw enough to "break it in" for years.
Pull some cylinders and take a peek. Measure the rings and gap before and after. If heat cycling made a difference the manufacture would have to do it as the consumer is not going to and warranty claims would be huge.
Anyone who wants to "baby" a saw is more than welcome to but it is wasted effort.
Also, do not buy a saw off the shelf because those saws have been pulled over dry and then run WOT alot.
Trade show demo saws get run WOT straight out of the box all day long. Better skip those also.
If the manufacturer could get away with it, they would recommend that a saw not be used at all until the warranty is up.
I have to love that statement. Wish I had thought of it.
I have to love that statement. Wish I had thought of it.
I think I just ruined the BIL Build 026. I just went WOT for a few seconds to tune the H a little
Warranty claims for what? It isn't a matter of causing irreparable damage, it is simply a matter of getting a better seal. From what I have read of motorcycle engines, and other 2 strokes you can expect a 2-4% gain in hp from a proper break-in procedure (which includes heat-cycling).
That's a small enough difference on a 7 hp saw to not be noticeable, so I understand those that say it doesn't matter. There are others, however, who try and wring every fraction of a horsepower from their saws (or other peoples saws) that they can, and might be expected to be less cavalier about it.
Bottom line is, you won't kill your saw by not breaking it in. In fact, you probably won't be able to detect a difference, but there should be marginal gains for those who do it properly.
I hear ya on bieng carefull not to trash a valuable tool, but it can be over done. I'm a bit anal about some things, but break in ain't one of 'em.
The thing needs to be heat cycled with the carb set a smidge rich, and let the mating surfaces get to know each other without becoming one.
I just cut normally for 5 Min. and stop for 10 or so, and repeat several times while running good 2 cycle mix and fuel.
Just avoid noodling and heavy bucking for the first several tankfulls after that while cutting normally.
It's under warranty and it costs $$$ for warranty work, so if the manufacturers were concerned with anal retentive, multi-step, and hyper cautious break in, they woulda done it at the factory where it oculd be controlled.
Jest my .02
Stay safe!
Dingeryote
Yeah, you know what you are doing, and I probably made my break in routine sound more complicated than it really is.
For the first 3 tanks, it is just not hard cutting, leaning on the saw, and no stumps. I do richen up the mix maybe 1/8 turn.
And no WOT out of the cut. But I have seen guys do it, just to hear the saw scream I guess. Not good on a new engine
Fish
Tree Freak
But that fourth one...... You cut a big 8 inch log?
12?
SORRY........
12?
SORRY........
roncoinc
Official Stihl Disser
dadburned "instigators" here trying to make people think !!???
forget it..
EVERY part in that durn saw has already been subjected to more heat in the making of it that it will be subject to in any kind of break in period..or usage for that matter..
ALL of that metal at one time or another has been heated to the melting point and beyond...then heat treated,machined ( heat) etc !!!
as long as sufficient lube is present and the meltdown temp of the piston material is NOT reached,, RUN THE DAMN THING LIKE YOU STOLE IT !!
i'll be damned if i cant buy a new saw and work it,,thats why i buy new !
if it dont work or breaks within the warranty i bring it back..if they cant make a saw to run XX.XXX rpms like it's supposed to,shame on them !
ring to cylinder break in ?? just cause you do it slower dont make it better,the only thing seats rings is the number of times the piston goes up and down !,the rings aint broke into the cylinder untill they dont touch no more ! then no friction at all LOL !!
of course a little common sense is always prudent.
forget it..
EVERY part in that durn saw has already been subjected to more heat in the making of it that it will be subject to in any kind of break in period..or usage for that matter..
ALL of that metal at one time or another has been heated to the melting point and beyond...then heat treated,machined ( heat) etc !!!
as long as sufficient lube is present and the meltdown temp of the piston material is NOT reached,, RUN THE DAMN THING LIKE YOU STOLE IT !!
i'll be damned if i cant buy a new saw and work it,,thats why i buy new !
if it dont work or breaks within the warranty i bring it back..if they cant make a saw to run XX.XXX rpms like it's supposed to,shame on them !
ring to cylinder break in ?? just cause you do it slower dont make it better,the only thing seats rings is the number of times the piston goes up and down !,the rings aint broke into the cylinder untill they dont touch no more ! then no friction at all LOL !!
of course a little common sense is always prudent.
Come on Fish, I was a little slow to pick it up, but I think you like to stir the pot a little just for fun. Well what the heck, I have done the same thing at times.
The 4th tank? Any tree that I'm ready to take down. No holds barred. Run it like I can not wait for tank 15 because then it's really going to rip.
And yeah, I go a little overboard on the break in thing, and I have too many chainsaws, and plan to buy more, but that seems to come with the membership here, and I enjoy running the chain saws, and being out in the woods.
Of course, I could spend my money on wine, women and song. Done got too old for that though. And maybe a little smarter about it
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