not fair

[TheLumberJack]

Yea know half the time I don't know what the :censored: you are saying , lol . I only have one question for you when you wake up in the morning do you understand your purpose here on earth or are you just taking it as it comes ??

somethin about having to be a coon to make it in the tree biz...

 

[ASD]

Yea know half the time I don't know what the :censored: you are saying , lol . I only have one question for you when you wake up in the morning do you understand your purpose here on earth or are you just taking it as it comes ??

:agree2:

 

[beowulf343]

Don't let oldirty fool you. He may be bragging about his crane, and his crew, and his boss, but he's still jealous of me being able to stop at a tim horton's every morning. lol
And by the way oldirty, quit talking about how fun these jobs are because these other guys are going to want to do them too and it will be less jobs for guys like us!!!!

But seriously, you the man!! Nice job. Glad you found a good outfit to work for. It makes the job alot more enjoyable. And i don't know how it is for the old timers like jocomo, but after a decade of takedowns, four or five crane jobs a week, it still gives me a thrill. A gnarly crane job will get me as excited as a little boy. Keep up the good work.


What happened to the bull? I usually liked to hear what he had to say.

 

[ForTheArborist]

Yea know half the time I don't know what the :censored: you are saying , lol . I only have one question for you when you wake up in the morning do you understand your purpose here on earth or are you just taking it as it comes ??

Don't tell me you can't read again, jonny. If you've got problems with words, why not just say so?

I don't know what you want to socialize about purses for, but I assume you have no specific purpose these days. Can't figure out how to operate your poulan or what?

 

[Lawnmowerboy48]

I'd never want to be that big, I couldn't imagine the paperwork that owner must do. I get frustrated and overwhelmed trying to keep my little operation's I's dotted and T's crossed from time to time. Makes me wish I had taken a few years to get out the area and work for the big boys before I started settin' roots. I don't care who you are, that #### looks like FUN. But like you said, MDS, who knows where I'll be in 20.

You would be surprised as to how laid back the owner is, last I knew he is still making picks. Dirty tell me if I am wrong.

 

[custom8726]

Nice work as usual O.D. I think you have the right idea man. I miss working for a good company at times myself, I mean I always made decent money at my day job and then banged out a couple side gigs a month for play money. When my day was done it was done, no paper work, return calls,estimates, equipment repairs,etc,etc... Its becoming a distant memory at this point. As far as the crane taking away from the employees pay thats B.S. If the crane is scheduled accordingly and you have the right supporting equipment (Big Chipper, log truck, skidsteer,etc.. An obviously a good ground crew, you will make more money in a days time then some smaller company's will make in a week. Like the old saying goes "Time is money" Then the comments about being in the right demographic to be able to afford the luxury of a crane is also B.S. I utilize crane's as much as possible, it just takes a little more planning and creativity but in the end I feel 95% of the time the company as a whole makes more money, and everyones back & body is much happier. Dont get me wrong we still do plenty of free climbing aswell as bucket truck work when it becomes more cost effective to us, aswell/Or for the home owners.

 

[BC WetCoast]

One of the big decisions that company managment must make is the split between labour and capital (ie equipment). Whether this is a tree crew versus a crane or robots versus assembly line workers in an auto plant.

It is easy to become more productive by getting more equipment, but the challenge is matching your equipment to you market. While OD's crew can pound out a tree with crane and grapple chipper 5x faster than an all labour crew, there is a need for management to find 5x as many jobs to keep things moving. Just ask the automakers what happens when the public won't buy as many cars as you can produce.

This makes an interesting case study on business strategy. OD's boss is in a high risk/high reward arena. The business risk is another well equipped company moving into the area and saturating the market, or the number of potential customers drying up. At least with an all labour crew, you are flexible in the type of jobs you can take on. Remember with high risk also comes a larger probability of failure.

 

[tree md]

Just bid a crane job today. Fingers crossed that I get it. Gonna have to pick two over the house if I do. I love crane Jobs!!!

 

[ForTheArborist]

One of the big decisions that company managment must make is the split between labour and capital (ie equipment). Whether this is a tree crew versus a crane or robots versus assembly line workers in an auto plant.

It is easy to become more productive by getting more equipment, but the challenge is matching your equipment to you market. While OD's crew can pound out a tree with crane and grapple chipper 5x faster than an all labour crew, there is a need for management to find 5x as many jobs to keep things moving. Just ask the automakers what happens when the public won't buy as many cars as you can produce.

This makes an interesting case study on business strategy. OD's boss is in a high risk/high reward arena. The business risk is another well equipped company moving into the area and saturating the market, or the number of potential customers drying up. At least with an all labour crew, you are flexible in the type of jobs you can take on. Remember with high risk also comes a larger probability of failure.

That's probably the most intelligent thing I've read about the business side of it since I started subscribing here.

Two more factors to put in there is first, how much buying power do you have? Do you just have enough to get the heavy equipment on payments, or do you have enough to get them on payments and then a lot more? Secondly, when things do take a turn or dry up, the heavy equipment can be sold off, even liquidated, or the payments given to someone else if need be. The major portion of he money towards the equipment comes back when the equipment is sold off.

Now if the company doesn't have the buying power to get what ever it would ever want so to speak, then if things dry up, just lose the heavy equipment. Lose it, and count the money made over money spent on heavy equipment after folding or what not.

If the company does have major buying power, and could float threw dry spells, expand or down size given the circumstances in the market all the while without folding the whole company, then it can shrink its prices to remain competitive during dry times. Just pay staff and for supply, while reaching back to what ever kind of buying power had to pay for those machines. What ever the remedy through the low times, it doesn't have to fold because although it is losing money during a few months or more (yikes) it does not have to fold and sell off the assets simply because it had more buying power than what it was worth to begin with. It is not sole dependant on the high market.

This company that is stronger financially can actually come out on top of the other companies that are its competitors which have the heavy gear too. While they are folding, the stong company stays a float soaking up the market and notarity that comes with being the only duck on the pond. Therefore, it gets even stronger while the market is dry, and more so when the market returns.

I wonder if there is even one subscriber to this forum that owns and has that kind of buying power that subscribes to this site. The company that JeffLovstrom is a ranking member of probably has that kind of financial clout. It covers a big portion of Southern California, does all kind of govt. jobs and lots of other biggies, so I assume it could reach way down in the wallet.

 

[ForTheArborist]

Just bid a crane job today. Fingers crossed that I get it. Gonna have to pick two over the house if I do. I love crane Jobs!!!

What kind of number did you give the customer? Just interested.

 

[tree md]

What kind of number did you give the customer? Just interested.

I'd rather not say right now. I do have competitors who are members here. I will say that I priced it considerably less than I would have a year ago but I have a better crane connection now.

I will say that it is two large, mature trees in a very tight spot, up against a fence and over two houses. The furthest one is about 100' out. Both trees will have to be picked over the house. You can do the math.

 

[oldirty]

The furthest one is about 100' out. Both trees will have to be picked over the house.

now those are the money picks right there brother. your crane connect got a lotta stick? thats some reach right there.

 

[oldirty]

more importantly

to all you guys who are out in the grind daily and running your own show my hard hat goes off to you.

much treespect.

 

[tree MDS]

more importantly

to all you guys who are out in the grind daily and running your own show my hard hat goes off to you.

much treespect.

much treespect brother, very much!

Must stick together; many do not understand the way of the treedog!

 

[tree md]

now those are the money picks right there brother. your crane connect got a lotta stick? thats some reach right there.

He's got 135' with the jib. Says he can get 800# fully extended.

 

[custom8726]

He's got 135' with the jib. Says he can get 800# fully extended.

Unless you are very comfortable with the crane operator I would not suggest using the jib for tree work. If you do decide or have to use the jib I would suggest not picking more then 40% of the max load limit....

 

[custom8726]

One of the big decisions that company managment must make is the split between labour and capital (ie equipment). Whether this is a tree crew versus a crane or robots versus assembly line workers in an auto plant.

It is easy to become more productive by getting more equipment, but the challenge is matching your equipment to you market. While OD's crew can pound out a tree with crane and grapple chipper 5x faster than an all labour crew, there is a need for management to find 5x as many jobs to keep things moving. Just ask the automakers what happens when the public won't buy as many cars as you can produce.

This makes an interesting case study on business strategy. OD's boss is in a high risk/high reward arena. The business risk is another well equipped company moving into the area and saturating the market, or the number of potential customers drying up. At least with an all labour crew, you are flexible in the type of jobs you can take on. Remember with high risk also comes a larger probability of failure.

You make some valid points and I agree on most. I think one of the biggest deciding factors between success and failure is how well a company is managed. It does not matter if its a one man show or a fully outfitted company if you don't have a long term buisness plan you will never get ahead. Alot of the bigger company's are very diverse, if one aspect of the buisness is slow they make up for it in another area wether it be in tree work or an entirely different entity all together. More now then ever people are shopping for the best price, We still have a great clientele that keeps us busy but for all the new customers 8 out of 10 times it comes down to price. For example earlier this week we had a $2,400.00 tree job that we used a 28 ton crane on. Shortly after getting the contract on this job I did another estimate around the corner were the guy just wanted this big silver maple put on the ground and left. The tree was over the house on one side and a service line and guide wire on the other, he also had a very nice ornamental garden at the base. I told him $1,200.00 put on the ground and left, he could not sign the contract quick enough. That tree took us 1.5hrs with the crane and bucket truck, that same tree would have taken all day roping it out, it had a broken center and no good gin points or tie in points at all. I would not have done that tree for less then 2k without the equipment. So anyways long story short we did $3,600.00 in tree work in less then a day and after expenses cleared roughly 2,600.00 Those same two jobs would have taken a qualified crew without a bucket or crane a solid 2 to 2/12 days to complete. I know the figures above are not a staggering amount but the fact that we can complete more jobs in a giving week then 2/3rds of the local competition really adds up at the end of the year. So the point of my rambling is, having the proper equipment pays for itself in the end, The company yeilds higher revenue, the employees are happier, you get a ton of great advertising with a 100'+ of boom in the air, tax right offs, more production means you are in more places which equates to more buisness, etc,etc...

 

[tree MDS]

You make some valid points and I agree on most. I think one of the biggest deciding factors between success and failure is how well a company is managed. It does not matter if its a one man show or a fully outfitted company if you don't have a long term buisness plan you will never get ahead. Alot of the bigger company's are very diverse, if one aspect of the buisness is slow they make up for it in another area wether it be in tree work or an entirely different entity all together. More now then ever people are shopping for the best price, We still have a great clientele that keeps us busy but for all the new customers 8 out of 10 times it comes down to price. For example earlier this week we had a $2,400.00 tree job that we used a 28 ton crane on. Shortly after getting the contract on this job I did another estimate around the corner were the guy just wanted this big silver maple put on the ground and left. The tree was over the house on one side and a service line and guide wire on the other, he also had a very nice ornamental garden at the base. I told him $1,200.00 put on the ground and left, he could not sign the contract quick enough. That tree took us 1.5hrs with the crane and bucket truck, that same tree would have taken all day roping it out, it had a broken center and no good gin points or tie in points at all. I would not have done that tree for less then 2k without the equipment. So anyways long story short we did $3,600.00 in tree work in less then a day and after expenses cleared roughly 2,600.00 Those same two jobs would have taken a qualified crew without a bucket or crane a solid 2 to 2/12 days to complete. I know the figures above are not a staggering amount but the fact that we can complete more jobs in a giving week then 2/3rds of the local competition really adds up at the end of the year. So the point of my rambling is, having the proper equipment pays for itself in the end, The company yeilds higher revenue, the employees are happier, you get a ton of great advertising with a 100'+ of boom in the air, tax right offs, more production means you are in more places which equates to more buisness, etc,etc...

So pretty much what your saying is: sometimes you have to get downright nasty and utilize your accumulated skills/knowledge to whip up the competion any way you can?? Thats the way its getting around here lately anyways.

 

[ForTheArborist]

You make some valid points and I agree on most. I think one of the biggest deciding factors between success and failure is how well a company is managed. It does not matter if its a one man show or a fully outfitted company if you don't have a long term buisness plan you will never get ahead. Alot of the bigger company's are very diverse, if one aspect of the buisness is slow they make up for it in another area wether it be in tree work or an entirely different entity all together. More now then ever people are shopping for the best price, We still have a great clientele that keeps us busy but for all the new customers 8 out of 10 times it comes down to price. For example earlier this week we had a $2,400.00 tree job that we used a 28 ton crane on. Shortly after getting the contract on this job I did another estimate around the corner were the guy just wanted this big silver maple put on the ground and left. The tree was over the house on one side and a service line and guide wire on the other, he also had a very nice ornamental garden at the base. I told him $1,200.00 put on the ground and left, he could not sign the contract quick enough. That tree took us 1.5hrs with the crane and bucket truck, that same tree would have taken all day roping it out, it had a broken center and no good gin points or tie in points at all. I would not have done that tree for less then 2k without the equipment. So anyways long story short we did $3,600.00 in tree work in less then a day and after expenses cleared roughly 2,600.00 Those same two jobs would have taken a qualified crew without a bucket or crane a solid 2 to 2/12 days to complete. I know the figures above are not a staggering amount but the fact that we can complete more jobs in a giving week then 2/3rds of the local competition really adds up at the end of the year. So the point of my rambling is, having the proper equipment pays for itself in the end, The company yeilds higher revenue, the employees are happier, you get a ton of great advertising with a 100'+ of boom in the air, tax right offs, more production means you are in more places which equates to more buisness, etc,etc...

That reads like it's all high power on your face of this business.

What are the tax write offs for?

 

[treeslayer]

He's got 135' with the jib. Says he can get 800# fully extended.

I have little use for a jib, I feel they add time I should not pay for, (ever stood in a tree and watched the operator work the jib into place?) and only decrease load weight too much. I size the crane reach accordingly to work without it.