MarkEagleUSA
ArboristSite Guru
Yes. I believe it's the same for ALL AT saws.
562XP Questions
- Thread starter SCHallenger
- Start date
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Only way to get a saw to run at full throttle for 3 to 5 minutes would be with a dull chain or in milling conditions. Let me re-write how to initially tune the carb.
Run the saw in wood. Cut as you would, notice I said cut, not play with it like its an air guitar and your the saw demon. Go cut wood. It will sort itself out.
Initial setting of the carb for regional/geographic areas is the reasoning for the get as much runtime on the saw under load as quickly as possible so it can dial itself in and be the best it can be the quickest.
Running the junk out of a 2-stroke when new, is what they are designed for, remember your dealing with fuel and oil, both provide cooling/lubrication.
MountainHigh
Selective Tree whacker
air guitar / saw demon
you read my mind !I like your re-write of the break-in procedure, but the question then begs, why does Stihl continue to recommend (according to my dealer) a more gradual break in?
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air guitar / saw demon
I like your re-write of the break-in procedure, but the question then begs, why does Stihl continue to recommend (according to my dealer) a more gradual break in?
A gradual break in on non AT/MT saws was always done by having a richer mixture for the first few hours an lessing the max rpm to 5-700rpm below the max. This is not possible to do with AT/MT saws.
In just cutting wood, throttle position varies throughout the rpm range, as there are many transitions from wot to idle.
MountainHigh
Selective Tree whacker
Then wouldn't it seem prudent to force more lubrication into the mix at break-in, say run at least 40-to-1 during startup? I have always ran my 346 OE at 32-to-1. It has never been rebuilt and is still pretty strong at 13 years old. Can we/should we no longer compensate at all manually with Autotune/M-tronic?
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The choice is yours to run it however you want. I've seen plenty of saws with hundreds of hours on them, ran the last hour the same as the first, with the same ingredients in the fuel tank. Fresh gasoline. 2.6oz per gallon 2-cycle oil. What will affect your saw more so than 40:1 vs 50:1 will be fresh clean fuel and good oil, along with proper maintenance and care.
Crow99
ArboristSite Lurker
I'm considering a 545AT, so this discussion is pertinent to my decision. I have a much greater comfort level with the gradual break in process.... I use 40:1 mix all the time and try to run somewhat rich.. just makes me feel like I'm avoiding potential problems that way. Whatever.
Anyway, has anyone here actually experienced any engine damage from following the manufacturer's instructions and running full throttle for the first 3-5 minutes?
Alternately, if I choose to "baby" the saw through its first couple of tanks, am I likely to experience problems like the saw not "learning" at all and therefore running badly, or is it just going to take longer to "learn?"
Anyway, has anyone here actually experienced any engine damage from following the manufacturer's instructions and running full throttle for the first 3-5 minutes?
Alternately, if I choose to "baby" the saw through its first couple of tanks, am I likely to experience problems like the saw not "learning" at all and therefore running badly, or is it just going to take longer to "learn?"
MountainHigh
Selective Tree whacker
Look for post from SCHallenger not quite half way down the 6th page of posts on this thread here:
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/562xp-questions.239220/page-6
Here's part of the quote:
"Update on my 562XP
I thought you all should have a follow-up on my 562. I went to the dealership with 4 slabs of dry Honey Locust which were 8-9yrs. old & VERY hard, to do the carburetor calibration run. Since the run is supposed to be 3-5min., I figured these chunks would make the cuts longer, so the saw would not have to be repositioned as much....... The cover was so hot, I was surprised that it hadn't melted!?! Nobody said anything, so I took the saw home thinking that I would take it up north on the weekend & cut some stuff & re-evaluate the whole situation. When I got up north I had second thoughts about running it without pulling the muff to have a look at the piston. Glad I did. It was scored!"
KenJax Tree
Terraphobic
Did you also read that it had 2 air leaks? That has nothing to do with the AT. I have 2 AT saws that i have run the snot out of since it was brand new. If something happens during break in and it grenades on you take it back you do have a warranty.
Sent from my Autotune Carb
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Crow99
ArboristSite Lurker
I did read that post and noted the air leaks.. presumably that was unusual.
So does the AT "learn" all at once or would it do so over several shorter runs?
I really can't wrap my mind around full throttle like that on a brand new saw, try as I might. If it would get to where it needs to be after a couple of tanks, gradually increasing speed and load, then I could feel a lot happier..
So does the AT "learn" all at once or would it do so over several shorter runs?
I really can't wrap my mind around full throttle like that on a brand new saw, try as I might. If it would get to where it needs to be after a couple of tanks, gradually increasing speed and load, then I could feel a lot happier..
KenJax Tree
Terraphobic
It learns all the time depending on the temperature,altitude,fuel,mix ratio the tune is always changing. I guess you just don't buy an AT saw.
Sent from my Autotune Carb
Sent from my Autotune Carb
zogger
Tree Freak
And who knoweth, running the saw that hot might have contributed to or caused an air leak that wasn't there in the first place.
Well here's something I don't know about new saws, do the factories do a pressure and vac test on them before they leave the manufacturing facility? I know they are run somehow automagically, but how about the leak test?
Anywho, still looking forward to getting one once they have been out long enough that there are plenty of used ones out there for affordable to me prices....
..and for the aftermarket AT module and so on to be like ten bucks...with a variety of ROMs...
it's like computers, I stay on the raw ragged dripping bleeding edge of at least ten year old tech....
Well here's something I don't know about new saws, do the factories do a pressure and vac test on them before they leave the manufacturing facility? I know they are run somehow automagically, but how about the leak test?
Anywho, still looking forward to getting one once they have been out long enough that there are plenty of used ones out there for affordable to me prices....
..and for the aftermarket AT module and so on to be like ten bucks...with a variety of ROMs...
it's like computers, I stay on the raw ragged dripping bleeding edge of at least ten year old tech....
Crow99
ArboristSite Lurker
Yup.. option 3: Don't get the AT saw. I think I will stick with that one. I will stay old tech. At least I know it works and lasts.
And who knows... If we get an EMP event and nobody's car runs, the AT saws probably won't either..
And who knows... If we get an EMP event and nobody's car runs, the AT saws probably won't either..
Does everybody here not realize that any saw out of the box could have an air leak? Or that the air leak may have been circumstantial, not related to the AT being on the saw?
I have had one 562xp go out the door with an air leak from day one. Did it every exhibit any symptoms of an air leak? No. The logger used the saw for a year before bringing it back into the shop for some sprucing up for a backup saw while he bought another 562. The only symptom of an air leak was in the computer diagnostics and an error code. The saw had been started 2,263 times. The first time the error code showed up? 2,261 starts ago. He ran the saw 106 hours and 4 minutes with an air leak. Still blew 160psi and the cyl was clean as it gets. Air leak was right under the base gasket of the cyl, muffler side.
The AT is the only thing that saved that particular saw.
The air leak in the saw posted above was probably substantially worse than my customers. I should hope that saw was taken care of under warranty. Husqvarna warrantied this one, a year later, commercially used.....
I have ran my personal 550xp's with no regard to being dainty - for the sake of my own curiosity in reliability. Neither has skipped a beat. One is ported, one is stock. Pull rope, cut wood.
Anybody preparing for the apocalypse or EMP event or whatever, should probably sharpen up the ol' crosscut and know that when the power goes out, and the fuels we need for our old technology saws is no longer available, they won't run either......
I have had one 562xp go out the door with an air leak from day one. Did it every exhibit any symptoms of an air leak? No. The logger used the saw for a year before bringing it back into the shop for some sprucing up for a backup saw while he bought another 562. The only symptom of an air leak was in the computer diagnostics and an error code. The saw had been started 2,263 times. The first time the error code showed up? 2,261 starts ago. He ran the saw 106 hours and 4 minutes with an air leak. Still blew 160psi and the cyl was clean as it gets. Air leak was right under the base gasket of the cyl, muffler side.
The AT is the only thing that saved that particular saw.
The air leak in the saw posted above was probably substantially worse than my customers. I should hope that saw was taken care of under warranty. Husqvarna warrantied this one, a year later, commercially used.....
I have ran my personal 550xp's with no regard to being dainty - for the sake of my own curiosity in reliability. Neither has skipped a beat. One is ported, one is stock. Pull rope, cut wood.
Anybody preparing for the apocalypse or EMP event or whatever, should probably sharpen up the ol' crosscut and know that when the power goes out, and the fuels we need for our old technology saws is no longer available, they won't run either......
MountainHigh
Selective Tree whacker
Ya I did, but just got lazy and figured whoever read it would figure it out. However, like Zogger says, who knows what came first, the Hot brake-in or air leaks.
Anyway, don't get me wrong, I want this saw but am plodding slowly towards purchase. This old techy has made living with computers since 1988 and knows only too well that bleeding edge can cut. I was one of the millions who beta tested for Bill Gates many many times
- Blue screens anyone!I sometimes go few weeks or months without touching my saw, then work it daily for few weeks. If I get it right, this might be the last saw I ever buy as I don't see anything else out there in same power to weight ratio. Just not sure if my style of working will show up any flaws early enough to get any necessary warranty work. Sooner or later I'll likely just buy the darn thing. HeII it's only money
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Mastermind
Work Saw Specialist
This post raises some good questions & an opportunity to give another update & more details about the overheating & possible causes. Chain tensioning was done by making sure that all drive links were fully seated on the under side of the bar & the chain could be easily pulled along the bar. The saw was fired up & blipped a few times to allow for initial new chain stretching, & then shut down & retensioning was done. After one cut in the wood, more stretching occurred, so the saw was shut down & retensioning was done. Proper oiling was clearly evident by the mist seen on a piece of wood in front of the bar when the saw was revved & by the oil seen on top of the cutters. In my experience, an inadequately oiled chain will quickly "freeze up" on the bar & cause the engine to lug badly or stall. This did not happen. The chain actually stretched so much that several of the drive links were visible on the under side of the bar & returned to the correctly set tension when allowed to cool. Question #1 above asks about the heat of the bar & clutch cover. In my original post when I said the cover was so hot I was surprised that it had not melted, I was talking about the shroud (top cover). I'm sure the clutch cover was also very hot but did not actually check it.
Here are some details not mentioned in the original post which may provide some more clues about the overheating & the ability of the AT system to compensate. When the saw was fired up the first time (2 pulls to fire then set to fast idle with choke off, 1more pull to start), it ran a bit slowly on fast idle (chain was moving very slowly) & a blip to set slow idle resulted in a stall. I commented to the tech that if this was not an AT carb I would increase the idle speed with about 1/2 turn on the LA screw & richen the L needle by 1/4 turn. In my mind the saw should not have died when I blipped down to slow idle. I re-started it & we proceeded with the carb calibration run as described originally. It ran very well & seemed to have dialed in nicely between the 3 & 4 minute mark, but the overheating occurred. Now we fast forward to after the new P&C & decomp have been installed. I should have mentioned that all of the above was done with the original B&C which were 24in Husky with Oregon LGX. Anyway, I took the saw with a 20in Techlite & Stihl RS chain to help a friend with a semi load of firewood & put a couple of tanks through it, & it cut like a maniac. About a month later, with the 24in B&C, I was cutting & noodling some jackpine to make some "Scandihoovian" candles & noticed that I was pushing to get through the cuts. Thinking back to cutting the firewood logs the saw had been self-feeding & cutting the hardwood much more easily. Then the light bulb went on, & I checked the Oregon chain. By now you are probably saying I should have checked the depth guages before using the chain, & you would be right! They were too high! I originally thought that the hardness of the old Honey Locust was the reason that I was leaning hard on the saw during the carb calibration run. This, I'm pretty sure, was part of the reason for the overheating, along with the air leaks. The story isn't over yet. Let's go back to the unusual performance at the first & all other start ups where the chain would turn slowly at fast idle & die if immediately blipped to slow idle unless blipped 4-5 more times to "spank" it into continuing to run. I figured this would self correct after enough hours of break-in, however, it now developed that hesitation coming off of idle & even died 3 or 4 times when I went to throttle up without a couple of blips! By now I'm getting ticked with this bratty behavior! I took it back to the dealer & showed him Spike60s post about resetting the fuel systems. He said there was some software update that he would throw at it & see if that helped. If it did not help, he said it would get a new carb. The carb on it is the EL46. Today I picked it up & asked if he had run it. He said he made one cut & it seemed fine. I brought it home & started it cold (outdoor temp was about 23F). It fired on pull #2, set it on fast idle, 1 more pull & it started & ran at what I think was a good fast idle with the chain running, not just crawling along as it had done before. One blip to slow idle & it continued to run exactly as it should. I warmed it up a bit, gave it a couple of good revs, & put it away 'til the weekend. I think we've got it licked!!
MountainHigh
Selective Tree whacker
Indeed! and therein lies the rub. Will we have these issues down the road?
If this autotune is going to replace our trusty screwdrivers, when purchasing an autotune saw, the purchaser should receive ALL the software updates and the USB dongle interface, so that we can tweak these things as effortlessly as we've been used to doing ourselves. Hence the fear and loathing from many about going this route.
If I could buy a 562XP today WITH the diagnostic tool software and dongle interface, and receive full access to patches and upgrades via the Internet, I would rush out and get one immediately and I would hail this innovation as a brilliant upgrade. Barring this long shot option, it would seem the dealers might have more potential to benefit from this technology 'innovation', than the saw owners . At least until proven otherwise.
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What adjustability? All saws come with limiter caps today. By breaking those limiters you are essentially violating warranty and the the restrictions they impose. You're allowed by the EPA to adjust the saw to compensate for altitude changes. If it weren't for that then they'd be completely fixed.
Don't get me wrong. I hate limiters. But, just sayin. At least AT will compensate outside the parameters of limiters.
Based on what I have read & learned on this site & the info just posted, I have no concerns at all with the future of my 562. I really like the feel, the build quality, the location & ease of use of all adjustments, & the service from my dealer. Many times I have read that a dealer just started replacing parts without proper testing on these saws. The fact that he went looking, specifically by pressure & vac testing, to find the source of the trouble was very encouraging & the main reason I "stuck it out". I will post further updates as I put some serious use on it. So far mine is the only one out of about 15 he has sold that has come back with any problems, & it looks as though he has solved them.
