A (sort of) Simple Plan

[TimberPig]

Timber, it's as simple as this. Dealers are representatives of Stihl. A bad dealer is a bad representative of Stihl, not just a bad dealer. A consumer is repsonsible for what he buys, just as a manufacturer is responsible for its representatives.

Very true, but the correct way of dealing with a bad dealer is to contact the manufacturer, work through the channels, and hopefully seek satisfaction, instead of getting on an internet forum, and telling everyone their product is crap. This went from a bad dealer issue, and a saw that had minor issues the dealer should have taken care of, into all Stihl saws being crap, based upon one lousy experience caused by a bad dealer. If this were really true, then there would be no good products in this world, as there are bad Husky dealers, bad car dealers, and any other consumer goods you can think of. This would make everything in our world crap, since one person had a bad experience.

 

[Lakeside53]

Very true, but the correct way of dealing with a bad dealer is to contact the manufacturer, work through the channels, and hopefully seek satisfaction, instead of getting on an internet forum, and telling everyone their product is crap. This went from a bad dealer issue, and a saw that had minor issues the dealer should have taken care of, into all Stihl saws being crap, based upon one lousy experience caused by a bad dealer. If this were really true, then there would be no good products in this world, as there are bad Husky dealers, bad car dealers, and any other consumer goods you can think of. This would make everything in our world crap, since one person had a bad experience.

YES!

 

[spacemule]

Timber, I agree to some extent. However, I don't think anyone is dissmissing Stihl over this incident. Notice that several people have given positive experiences. I have no problem with people posting actual facts. If I recall, sap said in his first post that Stihl's saws might be good, but he was inclined to go elsewhere after the service of this dealer. Nowhere did he make a comment about Stihl being bad or all dealers being bad, at least I didn't see one.

 

[Lakeside53]

Timber, I agree to some extent. However, I don't think anyone is dissmissing Stihl over this incident. Notice that several people have given positive experiences. I have no problem with people posting actual facts. If I recall, sap said in his first post that Stihl's saws might be good, but he was inclined to go elsewhere after the service of this dealer. Nowhere did he make a comment about Stihl being bad or all dealers being bad, at least I didn't see one.

You might want to read the posts again...

 

[spacemule]

Lake, I'm talking about the original poster. I saw the stihl bashing by the others.

 

[Rspike]

Rspike I gotta ask ya, did you buy your Huskies online and if so why?

I bought all 5 of my Husqvarna chainsaws on-line right after going to 3 different Stihl dealers and getting bad mouthed at one because i asked if the one home owner saw he had was as good as the Husqvarna XP saw of about the same size, the other didnt have the time of day to answer questions and show me saws , he was too busy talking to his daughter and her friend that were in the store and then went to talk to joe-blow about getting his (the dealer) lawn redone in the spring and getting prices from him and the last one only wanted to sell me what he had on-hand of the small homeowner saws and didnt want to order what i wanted in. I spent 3 days going to 3 different dealers. No Husqvarna dealer close so after some research i called one of the sellers on ebay and sold me 5 chainsaw new for $520. under retail (for all 5) and told me if i had any problems just call there 800. and they covered repair work too.

 

[spacemule]

The point of this whole story is that simply by immediately offering to replace the defective saw, the salesman could have turned a bad experience into a good one...and created a loyal customer in the process. Or even by offering to refund my money or give me credit toward a different model saw...my choice. Virtually anything would have been better then what he did do, which was to immediately try to pin the blame on me and refuse to stand behind his product. Now, I can't say whether all Stihl dealerships are run this way, but suffice it to say that I'm not in a hurry to find out anytime soon.

Granted, he does have a negative tone, but again he is putting that blame squarely on the shoulders of this dealer. Actually, I think he spoke fairly nicely given the treatment he was given, and yes, I realize we aren't hearing the other side of the story.

 

[coveredinsap]

For starters, feel free to raise your hand if you have any personal experience running a chainsaw mill. How about personal experience using an Alaskan Small Log mill, milling California incense cedar? Anyone?

Well, I can say from personal experience, that the MS390 should be more than capable of milling the cedar using a 20" Alaskan small log mill, and this is backed up according to the specs on the Granberg site. And if the Husky 455 Rancher can do it (and it is doing it), then certainly the MS390, a more powerful saw, should be able to do it also....no problem.

And again I'll reiterate...the 45cc Homelite was milling the cedar. Was it putting a lot of stress on the Homelite? Sure it was. Would I have burned up the Homelite before I was finished the tree? Most likely. (Either that or ruined my back in the process!) But the Homelite did mill one entire quartered log with no ill effect...something that the MS390 couldn't do before breaking.

So what is being said here by many is that a $500 MS390 is less of a saw than a $150 Homelite. That doesn't say much for the MS390...or Stihl, for that matter. It does say a lot for the Homelite, though, and makes the Homelite the better value dollar for dollar in a saw hands down... for the average joe homeowner.

And once again, no matter what the Stihl salesman says, tell me why would I buy a $600 professional Stihl (361) to mill one lousy cedar tree? I wouldn't... is the answer, when I can get a Husky 455 for $369 that does the job just fine.

Now, if Stihl wants to include in the MS390 manual a paragraph stating that the saw is not to be used for milling, or the warranty is voided, or put stickers on the saw to that effect... then that is one thing. However, I saw no such restrictions listed for the MS390, the Homelite 45cc, or the Husky 455.

And I'm not milling with the saw all the time...it's 'ocassional use', just like the saw is rated for. Does it say on the MS390 'Caution: This saw is only rated for occassional use cutting soft logs perpendicular to the grain.'? Nope. But maybe it should if what you're saying is true.

And if you looked on the Granberg Mill site, you'd have seen than 64cc is rated for use with the Small Log Mill for the size of logs I'm ripping.
http://www.granberg.com/faq.htm#faq03

I'm sorry, but the argument that the MS390 is not suitable for milling softwoods does just not hold water. Unless, that is, that you are admitting that the MS390 is a overpriced piece of crap, in which case this whole discussion is moot.

Speaking of dealers, the Husky dealer asked me if I wanted them to assemble the saw. I told them no thanks, I'll do it myself...just llike I would have told the Stihl dealer if given the chance.
And If I ever need hand-holding ...my wife has prettier hands than any chainsaw dealer

 

[THALL10326]

I bought all 5 of my Husqvarna chainsaws on-line right after going to 3 different Stihl dealers and getting bad mouthed at one because i asked if the one home owner saw he had was as good as the Husqvarna XP saw of about the same size, the other didnt have the time of day to answer questions and show me saws , he was too busy talking to his daughter and her friend that were in the store and then went to talk to joe-blow about getting his (the dealer) lawn redone in the spring and getting prices from him and the last one only wanted to sell me what he had on-hand of the small homeowner saws and didnt want to order what i wanted in. I spent 3 days going to 3 different dealers. No Husqvarna dealer close so i called on of the sellers on ebay and sold me 5 chainsaw new for $520. under retail (for all 5) and told me if i had any problems just call there 800. and they covered repair work too.

Spike I carry everything from the MS660 right on down to the little MS192. I'll order you a MS880 on the spot if thats what you want, gonna have to show me some funds though. Point I'm making is simple, had you walked in my door you would own 5 Stihls today and be happier than a pig in slop. It all revolves around who you deal with.

 

[Lakeside53]

Lake, I'm talking about the original poster. I saw the stihl bashing by the others.

read his later posts..

 

[Rspike]

Spike I carry everything from the MS660 right on down to the little MS192. I'll order you a MS880 on the spot if thats what you want, gonna have to show me some funds though. Point I'm making is simple, had you walked in my door you would own 5 Stihls today and be happier than a pig in slop. It all revolves around who you deal with.

exactly ! I'm no bashing the saw Stihl , I didnt get to own one. I'm talking about the service and support that Stihl is to uphold as there name in whole and is so popular for , the bad side is i just didnt get to see that from Stihl locally .

 

[TimberPig]

Timber, I agree to some extent. However, I don't think anyone is dissmissing Stihl over this incident. Notice that several people have given positive experiences. I have no problem with people posting actual facts. If I recall, sap said in his first post that Stihl's saws might be good, but he was inclined to go elsewhere after the service of this dealer. Nowhere did he make a comment about Stihl being bad or all dealers being bad, at least I didn't see one.

If you go back and reread coveredinsap's posts, 2, 57, 62, 64, 69, 70, and now 88 there is a decidedly negative attiude towards Stihl, and any other Stihl dealers. He states he has little interest in pursuing another Stihl dealer, since this one was bad. He then continues to stick to believing that the MS 390 should have been a perfectly good milling saw, despite plenty of evidence to the contrary. It should have held up better than it did, but in no way is it intended or well suited for milling.

I can accept that his poor experience at this dealer has soured him on Stihl, but to write their entire company off over the actions of one dealer is a waste. Instead of writing off the brand, someone should recommend a good Stihl dealer, and he can keep an open mind and go visit what a dealer should be like. It sounds like he has found this in his Husky dealer, but since not all Stihl dealers are bad, and not all Husky dealers are good, keeping an open mind on the product, and basing your buying decisions on the service, makes more sense than writing off a brand over one bad dealer.

 

[Lakeside53]

For starters, feel free to raise your hand if you have any personal experience running a chainsaw mill. How about personal experience using an Alaskan Small Log mill, milling California incense cedar? Anyone?

Well, I can say from personal experience, that the MS390 should be more than capable of milling the cedar using a 20" Alaskan small log mill, and this is backed up according to the specs on the Granberg site. And if the Husky 455 Rancher can do it (and it is doing it), then certainly the MS390, a more powerful saw, should be able to do it also....no problem.

And again I'll reiterate...the 45cc Homelite was milling the cedar. Was it putting a lot of stress on the Homelite? Sure it was. Would I have burned up the Homelite before I was finished the tree? Most likely. (Either that or ruined my back in the process!) But the Homelite did mill one entire quartered log with no ill effect...something that the MS390 couldn't do before breaking.

So what is being said here by many is that a $500 MS390 is less of a saw than a $150 Homelite. That doesn't say much for the MS390...or Stihl, for that matter. It does say a lot for the Homelite, though, and makes the Homelite the better value dollar for dollar in a saw hands down... for the average joe homeowner.

And once again, no matter what the Stihl salesman says, tell me why would I buy a $600 professional Stihl (361) to mill one lousy cedar tree? I wouldn't... is the answer, when I can get a Husky 455 for $369 that does the job just fine.

Now, if Stihl wants to include in the MS390 manual a paragraph stating that the saw is not to be used for milling, or the warranty is voided, or put stickers on the saw to that effect... then that is one thing. However, I saw no such restrictions listed for the MS390, the Homelite 45cc, or the Husky 455.

And I'm not milling with the saw all the time...it's 'ocassional use', just like the saw is rated for. Does it say on the MS390 'Caution: This saw is only rated for occasional use cutting soft logs perpendicular to the grain.'? Nope. But maybe it should if what you're saying is true.

And if you looked on the Granberg Mill site, you'd have seen than 64cc is rated for use with the Small Log Mill for the size of logs I'm ripping.
http://www.granberg.com/faq.htm#faq03

I'm sorry, but the argument that the MS390 is not suitable for milling softwoods does just not hold water. Unless, that is, that you are admitting that the MS390 is a overpriced piece of crap, in which case this whole discussion is moot.

Speaking of dealers, the Husky dealer asked me if I wanted them to assemble the saw. I told them no thanks, I'll do it myself...just llike I would have told the Stihl dealer if given the chance.
And If I ever need hand-holding ...my wife has prettier hands than any chainsaw dealer

Your inexperience with saws and milling is allowing you to miss all the important points raised by guys with a lot more experience than you have alluded too here. ... and I can raise my hand as say I use a mill and mill cedar (not your exact species, but real close).

BTW, CC rating has little to do with suitability... it may give you a vague idea of the power capability, but that's about it. That's your inexperience allowing you to make that determination...

Sure you can mill with a 390, BUT it's not going to last in Cedar or Oak. You are still running it at full power for extended periods, soft wood or not, and you're still reefing on it and twisting it around no matter what. Even my 660 isn't going to last if I keep using it as a mill, but with care I'll get a few years out of it. The 290/390/plastic body occasional use saw isn't suitable and I'd never sell one for that purpose, and yes, I'd rather lose the sale than sell the saw.

No manufacturer says "use my saw as a mill..." ever wonder why?

Enough from me... I'm off to have a few... see you all tomorrow. Maybe this thread will have died by then - fat chance.

 

[coveredinsap]

He then continues to stick to believing that the MS 390 should have been a perfectly good milling saw, despite plenty of evidence to the contrary.

Uh, no. You keep believing that the MS390 is not a perfectly good milling saw (or should be) for the cedar of a size rated by the mills maker, despite plenty of evidence to the contrary, i.e. the chart on Granberg's mill site for starters.

Feel free to show me the "plenty of evidence" that the MS390 isn't suitable for milling the cedar. (Anything in writing by a reputable manufacturer 's source would suffice.)

And why shouldn't I be 'negative' toward Stihl? The SOB wasn't going to do anything at all (other than burn me for the saw) until I started cursing at him and embarrassing him in front of his customers. It doesn't matter whether it is Ford, Chevy, or Stihl...I would be letting my feet voice my displeasure, by walking to the competition and spending my money there if at all possible. Which is exactly what I did.

By the way, I bought another Husky saw today (Fri) from the same Husky dealer ...a small Husky to replace my 7-year-old 14" Poulan 'widowmaker' (no chain brake). And I also intend in the not to distant future to buy a huge Husky to run a full-sized Alaskan MkIII chainsaw mill. So that's about $2k worth of business the local Stihl dealer here burned Stihl out of as a direct result of his bad behavior.

As for the 'experience' part... Dude, I've been using chainsaws since the mid 1970's. And I've cut more wood with all manner of saw than I care to remember...I'm a carpenter for Christ's sake. And cc/ is as good a method as any to determine suitibility to task. It's certainly not foolproof, however, as the MS390 looks good on paper, while the 455 Rancher doesn't, and that's flat-out bass-ackwards.

Maybe Stihl should come out with a new category of saw to fit the MS390 in. They could call it the 'poseur' class of saw.

 

[THALL10326]

If you go back and reread coveredinsap's posts, 2, 57, 62, 64, 69, 70, and now 88 there is a decidedly negative attiude towards Stihl, and any other Stihl dealers. He states he has little interest in pursuing another Stihl dealer, since this one was bad. He then continues to stick to believing that the MS 390 should have been a perfectly good milling saw, despite plenty of evidence to the contrary. It should have held up better than it did, but in no way is it intended or well suited for milling.

I can accept that his poor experience at this dealer has soured him on Stihl, but to write their entire company off over the actions of one dealer is a waste. Instead of writing off the brand, someone should recommend a good Stihl dealer, and he can keep an open mind and go visit what a dealer should be like. It sounds like he has found this in his Husky dealer, but since not all Stihl dealers are bad, and not all Husky dealers are good, keeping an open mind on the product, and basing your buying decisions on the service, makes more sense than writing off a brand over one bad dealer.

Timber my friend relax. Time the real Coveredinsap got EXPOSED once and for all. I e-mailed him and told him how terrible he had been treated and also told him I wanted the dealers name. He sent me the name. I e-mailed him back and told him I was going to do some calling on his behalf. Today I did just that. I made some calls and got a number for him to call and sent it to him. The number was to file the compalint with Stihl about that dealer. The purpose was to make sure others weren't treated as he was at that dealer, something positive. I thought his complaint was about the treatment he got from the dealer. That was untill I got home tonight and saw his posts bashing not only the dealer but the saw (piece of crap). To my surprize I recieve a e-mail back from Coveredinsap saying in so many words he's no longer interested in contacting Stihl over his bad ordeal. He went on to say if they want they can contact me. Then he says he's going to tell his story as long as someone wants to hear it. In this e-mail though is one more interesting line. quote "untill such time Stihl see's fit to give me a free saw in an attempt to change my opion, I'll hold them and their product in low regard, thats just the way the cookie crumbles" unquote.
I think that quote pretty well explains alot about what really took place at the dealership, what all the bashing is really about and what kind of person Coverdinsap really is. I have no clue who he thinks he is but I can assure you he's not the type of customer any company needs. He had no intent of doing anything positive about what happened at the dealer even after I tried to help him in doing so. After reading his e-mail I hold him in low regard, thats just the way the cookie crumbles..................

 

[Big Woody]

I like to buy saws from a manufacturer where I'll have to drive to LEESBURG, VIRGINIA or Woodinville, WA to get great service. Stihl USA can market that as: "Great Service - Coast to Coast".

Winters are slow anyway so a good 500 to 2000 mile road trip to get a few minor repairs done on the old stihl saw is no problem. Perhaps one can stop at some of the other 7998 dealers along the way to get some coffee. Or maybe they can just give you the normal kick in the a$$ to keep you awake while driving to the next one.

If you have been driving all night, REALLY TIRED, and just can't find a stihl dealer to give you the wakeup boot, pull into a husky shop and they will do it with steel toed boots. More painful but then you can drive farther and stay awake longer.

 

[Gologit]

Sap...When enough different people tell you the same thing,even though you disagree with it,doesn't it send you some kind of message? You might want to take another look at your attitude and listen to the guys here. Theres a wealth of information available to you on this forum but it won't do you any good if you approach with a closed mind .

 

[Gologit]

.


Thall...well said. I don't think it could be explained any better than the guys have done on this thread. He either doesn't get it or just won't get it. Either way enough is enough.

 

[THALL10326]

I like to buy saws from a manufacturer where I'll have to drive to LEESBURG, VIRGINIA or Woodinville, WA to get great service. Stihl USA can market that as: "Great Service - Coast to Coast".

Winters are slow anyway so a good 500 to 2000 mile road trip to get a few minor repairs done on the old stihl saw is no problem. Perhaps one can stop at some of the other 7998 dealers along the way to get some coffee. Or maybe they can just give you the normal kick in the a$$ to keep you awake while driving to the next one.

If you have been driving all night, REALLY TIRED, and just can't find a stihl dealer to give you the wakeup boot, pull into a husky shop and they will do it with steel toed boots. More painful but then you can drive farther and stay awake longer.

Woody your not that far away dayumm your ole hide. I'll meet ya half way and drive ya to the shop, fair deal?

 

[spacemule]

Timber my friend relax. Time the real Coveredinsap got EXPOSED once and for all. I e-mailed him and told him how terrible he had been treated and also told him I wanted the dealers name. He sent me the name. I e-mailed him back and told him I was going to do some calling on his behalf. Today I did just that. I made some calls and got a number for him to call and sent it to him. The number was to file the compalint with Stihl about that dealer. The purpose was to make sure others weren't treated as he was at that dealer, something positive. I thought his complaint was about the treatment he got from the dealer. That was untill I got home tonight and saw his posts bashing not only the dealer but the saw (piece of crap). To my surprize I recieve a e-mail back from Coveredinsap saying in so many words he's no longer interested in contacting Stihl over his bad ordeal. He went on to say if they want they can contact me. Then he says he's going to tell his story as long as someone wants to hear it. In this e-mail though is one more interesting line. quote "untill such time Stihl see's fit to give me a free saw in an attempt to change my opion, I'll hold them and their product in low regard, thats just the way the cookie crumbles" unquote.
I think that quote pretty well explains alot about what really took place at the dealership, what all the bashing is really about and what kind of person Coverdinsap really is. I have no clue who he thinks he is but I can assure you he's not the type of customer any company needs. He had no intent of doing anything positive about what happened at the dealer even after I tried to help him in doing so. After reading his e-mail I hold him in low regard, thats just the way the cookie crumbles..................

Interesting indeed. This is why one should never put too much stock in these types of stories from the Internet, but instead should rely on their own experiences with their local dealers.