Dragster gas work for a work saw??

[Odog]

I have access to about 55 gallons of C21 and C 23 race gas, it's a few years old and it stuff my boss doesn't want to run in his dragster, says the gas is too old for that motor. Anyway he was just going to burn it but said if I could use it I could have it. Is it usable in a saw? If mixed heavy, or could I mix it with regular gas first then oil? I don't want to burn up my saw. I know it's high octane sh&$, just never used it in a saw before. I've run it in my bronco and it makes the exhaust smell sweet, and runs good.

He also has 5 gallons of nitro methane that he doesn't want to run, but that's not gonna work in a saw. I think we'lol dump that down some blast holes and make the load a little hotter.

 

[Rev]

Yer gonna have the environmental whackos in here either way.

 

[smokey7]

How high of octane is it? I would likely mix it in at 25%. I'm betting it's oxygenated and likely not really formulated for 2 strokes. But at a mix like that at 25-40% you might have to lean out your tune some. It should run fine as long as you got a fairly fresh saw.

 

[Odog]

The C23 is 122 octane, so it's pretty hot. The saw isn't super fresh, it's got about 50 hrs on a new crank and bearings, muffler mod and V stack. Nothing spectacular.

 

[Odog]

Yer gonna have the environmental whackos in here either way.

Not too concerned with those nut bars. Im in southern Idaho so the Scum Valley idiots and the Boise Valley nut jobs are an hour and a half away. We're not super enviro friendly anyway

 

[sunfish]

I would not run it in my saws, but it likely will not hurt anything.

High octane isn't "hot". It is actually harder to ignite to reduce per-ignition and will make less power in a saw.

 

[Odog]

I would not run it in my saws, but it likely will not hurt anything.

High octane isn't "hot". It is actually harder to ignite to reduce per-ignition and will made less power in a saw.

That actually makes sense. That would be why cars with such high compression run higher octane, to reduce pre detonation when compressed so tightly right? I'm leaning away from using it in my saws, but I'm still taking the fuel, I can use it in my bronco and free gas is still free gas.

 

[sunfish]

That actually makes sense. That would be why cars with such high compression run higher octane, to reduce pre detonation when compressed so tightly right? I'm leaning away from using it in my saws, but I'm still taking the fuel, I can use it in my bronco and free gas is still free gas.

Yes. I'd take it to. I would also consider running it in my saws, if mixed with 89-91 E-free gas. Or just dump it in the truck.

 

[chris zautner]

i ran c14 in my Drag bike and it likes to eat the gaskets away so i run c12 now and its still makes the same horse power.

 

[Skeans]

That actually makes sense. That would be why cars with such high compression run higher octane, to reduce pre detonation when compressed so tightly right? I'm leaning away from using it in my saws, but I'm still taking the fuel, I can use it in my bronco and free gas is still free gas.

Some of the high octane gases won't mix with premix as well.

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[RIDE-RED 350r]

Sunfish is spot-on.

I don't know how many times I have been told by someone that when they put 110 oct fuel in their bone stock *fill in the blank* they felt a difference. It simply doesn't work that way.

It won't harm anything, but you will actually lose a little power. The trick to making the most power for any given engine is to run as low of octane as you can without detonation. Higher octane fuels have a higher flash point and need higher compression ratios to be burned efficiently. A small increase in octane rating above the minimum required (say 3 or 4 points) is not likely to be noticeable in the "seat of the pants" dyno.. but a small loss of power would be seen on an actual dyno.

You can run higher than necessary octane fuels and you won't damage anything. But you can't go the other way around. If you have an engine designed to run on 110 minimum and toss 87 in the tank, bad things are going to happen, guaranteed. The trike in my avatar is built to require 108oct minimum, I run 110 to give it a little safety buffer.

If it were as simple as "pouring extra hp into the fuel tank" then why the need to build a race engine??

It's all about matching the best possible fuel to the build of the engine.

I don't know much about oxygenated fuels, so I will not comment on those.

Free fuel is free fuel indeed... But don't expect it to make the impossible a reality.

 

[Odog]

Sunfish is spot-on.

I don't know how many times I have been told by someone that when they put 110 oct fuel in their bone stock *fill in the blank* they felt a difference. It simply doesn't work that way.

It won't harm anything, but you will actually lose a little power. The trick to making the most power for any given engine is to run as low of octane as you can without detonation. Higher octane fuels have a higher flash point and need higher compression ratios to be burned efficiently. A small increase in octane rating above the minimum required (say 3 or 4 points) is not likely to be noticeable in the "seat of the pants" dyno.. but a small loss of power would be seen on an actual dyno.

You can run higher than necessary octane fuels and you won't damage anything. But you can't go the other way around. If you have an engine designed to run on 110 minimum and toss 87 in the tank, bad things are going to happen, guaranteed. The trike in my avatar is built to require 108oct minimum, I run 110 to give it a little safety buffer.

If it were as simple as "pouring extra hp into the fuel tank" then why the need to build a race engine??

It's all about matching the best possible fuel to the build of the engine.

I don't know much about oxygenated fuels, so I will not comment on those.

Free fuel is free fuel indeed... But don't expect it to make the impossible a reality.

I get what you are saying, and I'm not looking for magical power from fuel. I was just looking at free gas and wanted to be sure what I could use it in. I didn't want to run it in my saws if it won't mix with oil very well, or if it's hard on fuel lines. I've run it in my truck and it just changes the exhaust smell.

 

[RIDE-RED 350r]

I hear ya...

Someone posted above about the possibility that it may be oxygenated. That could be an issue for your saws requiring at least some re-tuning. But as I said, I don't have any experience with that type of fuel, so I would defer to those who do for advice on that if the fuel you are looking at is oxygenated..

However, in my trike I run Sunoco 110 regular race fuel mixed at 32:1 with Maxima 927 Castor oil. The place I buy it has told me this fuel still contains lead, I don't know if that is true or not, but he is the owner of the station and I take it at face value. The long and short of it is, I have no issues whatsoever with that fuel as far as mixing with my oil. I do however have to be very careful about operating at below freezing temps, not because of the fuel but because I run castor based oil. In cold temps it tends not to stay mixed..but its not really an issue as I only run my toys in summer.

All of that said, if the fuel is not oxygenated I don't see any harm in running it in your saws. You will probably need to do some tuning is all. My wheeler runs just fine on it..

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

I'd be concerned about the lead in that fuel.
C21/c23 is 6 grams a gallon per the VP Racing spec sheet.

To compare, 100LL av gas is 2 grams/gal.

It's been talked about before that the 100ll isn't great to use in a saw being the operator is very near the exhaust.
Granted if the saw actually NEEDS the high octane fuel I'd imagine it would be a very built up saw, like for racing, not something you'd be using everyday... at least I don't know anyone that'd try to earn a living with a saw burning $6-10/gal fuel!

As far as running the race fuel in your vehicles, if old enough to have no exhaust sensors or catalytic converters it should be ok, though it will foul the plugs over time.
The leaded fuel will kill o2 sensors and destroy a cat quickly.

 

[sawfun]

Nitro does not go bad if kept in a dark container like a drum (not fuel jug of any color ). There are plenty of racers who would love that stuff, model boat, car and chainsaw racers will cut it with methanol to get the percent they want. At $60 - $100 per gallon I would not dump it. Of you do, check the color. If it is clear or yellow you are good. If it has turned blue or purple you need to dispose of it very carefully as it has turned to nitroglycerine and is extremely pressure sensitive. Either dump it slowly on the ground or seriously call the bomb squad. If you are near Oregon and want to get rid of it, I would gladly take it if it has not turned color.

 

[Skeans]

Lead in fuel is a cheap easy way to boost octane rating. Some of the higher octane fuels don't take to oils well at all they will separate real easy just like cold will do.

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[ANewSawyer]

Sunfish is spot-on.

I don't know how many times I have been told by someone that when they put 110 oct fuel in their bone stock *fill in the blank* they felt a difference. It simply doesn't work that way.

It won't harm anything, but you will actually lose a little power. The trick to making the most power for any given engine is to run as low of octane as you can without detonation. Higher octane fuels have a higher flash point and need higher compression ratios to be burned efficiently. A small increase in octane rating above the minimum required (say 3 or 4 points) is not likely to be noticeable in the "seat of the pants" dyno.. but a small loss of power would be seen on an actual dyno.

You can run higher than necessary octane fuels and you won't damage anything. But you can't go the other way around. If you have an engine designed to run on 110 minimum and toss 87 in the tank, bad things are going to happen, guaranteed. The trike in my avatar is built to require 108oct minimum, I run 110 to give it a little safety buffer.

If it were as simple as "pouring extra hp into the fuel tank" then why the need to build a race engine??

It's all about matching the best possible fuel to the build of the engine.

I don't know much about oxygenated fuels, so I will not comment on those.

Free fuel is free fuel indeed... But don't expect it to make the impossible a reality.

I am going to show how little I know about engines by replying to this post. I have seen several saw manuals calling for 87 octane e10. I run 91 octane 100% gas (mixed with oil of course). Does that mean I am losing power or burning 91 octane fuel inefficently?

 

[sunfish]

I am going to show how little I know about engines by replying to this post. I have seen several saw manuals calling for 87 octane e10. I run 91 octane 100% gas (mixed with oil of course). Does that mean I am losing power or burning 91 octane fuel inefficently?

91 is close enough to not make much difference. I run 91 E-free here.

 

[Skeans]

I am going to show how little I know about engines by replying to this post. I have seen several saw manuals calling for 87 octane e10. I run 91 octane 100% gas (mixed with oil of course). Does that mean I am losing power or burning 91 octane fuel inefficently?

I means you have less chance of pre ignition because the fuel is colder.

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[smokey7]

I believe I would still try mixing it with a good colored oil and test how it does. I also believe it could be ran mixed with 87 @25% @ a normal oil ratio without issue. Also even with separating issues we still knowingly run oil with these issues because the benefits outweigh the risk. Plus we keep a eye on it and take measures to minimize risk. I think I would be more worried plugging up cats on my truck then a 30 carb kit and fuel line job.