Ethanol-free fuel now prohibited in Canada's gas stations?

[056kid]

If only diesel would follow suit..

 

[wstan101]

Have you tried Av gas? Where is the closest state that allows non ethanol fuel to be sold? How you tried contacting an antique tractor club? I understand your state is ran by liberals that will not allow it to be sold but I am betting there are work-arounds that do not cost $24/gallon. As dumb as it sounds I am betting I could ship you a 5 gallon sealed container for less than $120. Now that would not be the brightest idea in the world but heck it is possible. They ship 55 gallon drums of oil daily.

Of course it all depends on the distance, price, and of course how much you use. I have 50 and 120 gallon slip in transfer tanks. The 50 gallon was $200 but I see the farm store wants $330 now. The Tuthill piston pumps were around $75 but I cannot even find one now. I have a 12volt but they are high as heck. I use teh tanks for diesel but I have used them for gas in the past. On September 11, 2001 I ran to town to try to fill the 120 gallon tank with gas but they limited me to a small amount.

This is a link to my 50 gallon tank. Look at the top were it says......Not for use with liquids or flammable fuels....

It is a fuel transfer tank with a combustible sticker.

https://www.farmandfleet.com/products/302210-delta-50-gallon-square-liquid-transfer-tank.html

Unless you are using hundreds of gallons, just obtain a gasoline safe container like a clear plastic one from wal mart that will hold 6+ gallons of fuel. Dump gas in, then add one gallon of water. That's it, all ethanol will puddle at bottom of container so all that's left to do is siphon out the gas. I installed a plastic pet cock on bottom outside edge to drain off majority of water/ethanol mixture and then siphon the gas. Either way it is a win win, been doing it for 5 to 6 years now without a hitch. I always treat the pure gas with stabil and I have had it last easily for one year. I might last even longer but I use it up before confirming this.

 

[Bill G]

If only diesel would follow suit..

It sure seems to be waaaay higher by percentage

 

[Bill G]

Unless you are using hundreds of gallons, just obtain a gasoline safe container like a clear plastic one from wal mart that will hold 6+ gallons of fuel. Dump gas in, then add one gallon of water. That's it, all ethanol will puddle at bottom of container so all that's left to do is siphon out the gas. I installed a plastic pet cock on bottom outside edge to drain off majority of water/ethanol mixture and then siphon the gas. Either way it is a win win, been doing it for 5 to 6 years now without a hitch. I always treat the pure gas with stabil and I have had it last easily for one year. I might last even longer but I use it up before confirming this.

Thankfully I do not need to go to all that trouble. I just buy non-ethanol fuel for the engines I do not want ethanol in. I live in a conservative farm area with folks that grasp where ethanol can be used and where it cannot. The majority of stations on the west side of the ditch sell non-ethanol fuel at the pump. Heck even the mega truck stop does.

 

[wstan101]

Thankfully I do not need to go to all that trouble. I just buy non-ethanol fuel for the engines I do not want ethanol in. I live in a conservative farm area with folks that grasp where ethanol can be used and where it cannot. The majority of stations on the west side of the ditch sell non-ethanol fuel at the pump. Heck even the mega truck stop doe

 

[Earloflondon]

Noticed shell no longer had an ethanol free option here in Ontario. Been looking online, and it sounds like Canada may have prohibited gas stations from selling anything with less than 10% ethanol; starting at the end of 2022. Is that the case? Is the only remaining ethanol-free option the $11+/liter pre-mixes?

I got some fuel at Canadian Tire in London,ON today,and the pump still says ethanol free....now I didn't go in and ask because the kids working the weekends likely have no clue, but the pumps still had the stickers on....

 

[Old2stroke]

I got some fuel at Canadian Tire in London,ON today,and the pump still says ethanol free....now I didn't go in and ask because the kids working the weekends likely have no clue, but the pumps still had the stickers on....

Same thing in Ottawa, they probably just haven't got around to changing the stickers. Can't believe anything, just add some water to the gas, shake and let settle and see if the volume of water has changed.

 

[Earloflondon]

Same thing in Ottawa, they probably just haven't got around to changing the stickers. Can't believe anything, just add some water to the gas, shake and let settle and see if the volume of water has changed.

Either that or it hasn't been used up yet.....if it is just that they haven't removed the labels then that's a lawsuit waiting to happen......Either way we're going to have to come up with an ethanol extraction device eventually. Anyone find an inexpensive such device in Canada? I saw a wine making conical fermenter with a drain at the bottom that would be perfect, but they're like $180.

 

[Earloflondon]

Either that or it hasn't been used up yet.....if it is just that they haven't removed the labels then that's a lawsuit waiting to happen......Either way we're going to have to come up with an ethanol extraction device eventually. Anyone find an inexpensive such device in Canada? I saw a wine making conical fermenter with a drain at the bottom that would be perfect, but they're like $180.

So I tested the fuel I got at Canadian Tire in London,ON last weekend, and it is indeed still ethanol free. It's an easy test, so I'll probably keep testing every 20L can I get until I see the "ethanol free" stickers disappear, but it's good to know one station still has some.

 

[ChasBronson]

I love e85! It burns cooler, it blows gasoline out of the park in detonation, or lack thereof. Man ethanol can take so much more timing, its crazy. It's cheaper, & it smells nice! PTFE fuel lines and the practice of not letting ethanol sit pretty much eliminates the big issues.

Are you kidding me, ask any of the guys that set their 1/4 mile cars up to run on E85, it’s takes way more fuel (like double) to do the same job as E10 or non ethanol gas, and you leave it sit for more than 2 months you won’t like the repair bill because it eats everything way worse than E10.

In regards to mixing water with ethanol gas then drain off the ethanol mixed with water, the octane that the ethanol contains has to be replaced, and if it isn’t the gas that’s left is way down in octane levels. Question is, if a good octane booster like Klotz is used, how do we know how many points it needs

 

[Earloflondon]

Are you kidding me, ask any of the guys that set their 1/4 mile cars up to run on E85, it’s takes way more fuel (like double) to do the same job as E10 or non ethanol gas, and you leave it sit for more than 2 months you won’t like the repair bill because it eats everything way worse than E10.

In regards to mixing water with ethanol gas then drain off the ethanol mixed with water, the octane that the ethanol contains has to be replaced, and if it isn’t the gas that’s left is way down in octane levels. Question is, if a good octane booster like Klotz is used, how do we know how many points it needs

One thread I read suggested that the octane level went down about 2-3 points (94 down to 91 or 92 for example) once the ethanol is removed. It would depend what percentage was ethanol to begin with of course. I think most octane boosters would tell you how much to add to go the other way, if not on the bottle then by asking the manufacturer..... That said I picked up another can of fuel in London from a different Canadian Tire, it also tested ethanol free (as the pump said it was) Forgot to check and see if Costco still advertises ethanol free when I was there last week.

 

[CamMann]

Been extracting the ethanol from station premium for like 6 months now. So far, so good. I've been curious how much the ethanol extraction drops the fuel's octane rating. I know a lot of manufacturers suggest using fuel with a minimum octane rating of like 89. So, I figure if my extractions drop the octane below 89 by much, I'll have to start adding octane boosters.

So, for the first time ever, I got on one of those AI sites. I asked for a formula to calculate the ethanol rating of gasoline without the added ethanol, using 91 octane gasoline w/ 10% ethanol as an example. It actually gave me a pretty simple formula with a bit of background info & a sample calculation:

-------------------------------------------------------------------

To determine the octane rating of gasoline without ethanol, we need to understand how ethanol affects the octane rating and the calculation involved.

Ethanol has a high octane rating, typically around 113-115. When blended with gasoline, it increases the overall octane rating of the fuel. In the case of 91 octane gasoline with 10% ethanol, we can assume that the remaining 90% is pure gasoline.

To calculate the octane rating without ethanol, we can use a weighted average formula. The formula is as follows:

Octane Rating = (Octane Rating of Component A * Volume Fraction of Component A) + (Octane Rating of Component B * Volume Fraction of Component B)

In this case, Component A represents ethanol and Component B represents gasoline.

Let's calculate the octane rating without ethanol using this formula:

Octane Rating = (113 * 0.10) + (Octane Rating of Gasoline * 0.90)

Since we want to find the octane rating without ethanol, we can rearrange the formula as follows:

(Octane Rating of Gasoline * 0.90) = Octane Rating - (113 * 0.10)

Simplifying further:

Octane Rating of Gasoline = (Octane Rating - (113 * 0.10)) / 0.90

Now, let's substitute the values into the equation:

Octane Rating of Gasoline = (91 - (113 * 0.10)) / 0.90

Calculating further:

Octane Rating of Gasoline = (91 - 11.3) / 0.90

Octane Rating of Gasoline = 79.7 / 0.90

Octane Rating of Gasoline ≈ 88.56

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, right now, that's close enough to 89 octane that I'm fine. But soon, when the ethanol percent of premium goes above 10%, or if I wasn't using premium, I'd have to use an octane booster.

 

[Earloflondon]

That's a great formula, thanks for sharing! So accordingly then 94 octane @ 10% ethanol would give you 92ish octane with the ethanol removed, and 90ish if it were 15% ethanol....If my math is right. So for now using 91 octane @ 10% is fine for me,but I'll have to switch to 94 when they bump it to 15% ethanol.
Curious....what system do you use to extract? I was thinking of using one of those conical wine fermenters as you can draw all the water and ethanol off from the bottom, and it will do a 5 gallon jug at a time.

 

[jellyroll]

That's a great formula, thanks for sharing! So accordingly then 94 octane @ 10% ethanol would give you 92ish octane with the ethanol removed, and 90ish if it were 15% ethanol....If my math is right. So for now using 91 octane @ 10% is fine for me,but I'll have to switch to 94 when they bump it to 15% ethanol.
Curious....what system do you use to extract? I was thinking of using one of those conical wine fermenters as you can draw all the water and ethanol off from the bottom, and it will do a 5 gallon jug at a time.

1 liter of water added to 5 liters of gasoline. shake well and let it set for a hour you can drain the water / alcohol off the bottom but you need to fashion a clear container with a drain on the bottom.

 

[Earloflondon]

1 liter of water added to 5 liters of gasoline. shake well and let it set for a hour you can drain the water / alcohol off the bottom but you need to fashion a clear container with a drain on the bottom.

I do add a few drops of blue food colouring to make it easier to tell when the water/ethanol mixture is finished coming out.....it doesn't bind to the fuel, just the mixture.

 

[jellyroll]

I do add a few drops of blue food colouring to make it easier to tell when the water/ethanol mixture is finished coming out.....it doesn't bind to the fuel, just the mixture.

Good to know on the food coloring.

 

[pdqdl]

1 liter of water added to 5 liters of gasoline. shake well and let it set for a hour you can drain the water / alcohol off the bottom but you need to fashion a clear container with a drain on the bottom.

And a really dedicated moonshiner would be able to distill that water extract and make some fine hooch with it. They would need to pay close attention to the distillation temperatures, as it seems likely to have a good deal more wood alcohol mixed in with the ethanol.

 

[jellyroll]

And a really dedicated moonshiner would be able to distill that water extract and make some fine hooch with it. They would need to pay close attention to the distillation temperatures, as it seems likely to have a good deal more wood alcohol mixed in with the ethanol.

Not worth the risk i dump it in my gravel driveway.

 

[Bill G]

Not worth the risk i dump it in my gravel driveway.

Good decision.

 

[jellyroll]

Good decision.

I don't drink i can't stomach it anymore with my IBS and acid reflux.