Let the low ballin begin!!

[sgreanbeans]

Dam, its all on up your way.

Not really! Kid wont answer the phone, tree still stands, so who knows! Left a voice mail with him, I am hoping he thinks about what he is about to do, if he does it!

 

[ropensaddle]

Not really! Kid wont answer the phone, tree still stands, so who knows! Left a voice mail with him, I am hoping he thinks about what he is about to do, if he does it!

I have climbed too many dead trees it ain't funny, some I did years ago I would not climb now! Ulmus really was one of the less spooky imo. Now dead liquidambar blows chunks

 

[treeclimber101]

Had my brush with low ballin it yesterday, bid one at 3g's, dead elm, to dead to climb. Told me other guys was at 1g, I said not possible. HO asks if he cant complete job, will I finish, nope, i dont clean up after anybody.
He ask if price is final, I said yes, well, he needs to go with the climber. WHAT!!! HE'S GONNA CLIMB IT?? HE CANT, HE WILL DIE!!
dude looks at me and says I'm just saying it to get the job. other guy is young kid, gonna call him today and ask him WTF?
Dont care about the job, care that this kid is gonna do it, cause he needs the money, gonna try and intervene, gonna work something out so he dont climb it, cant let it happen.
This is nuts! the HO could care less if someone gets hurt, his response "his life, not mine, hahaha" freakin jackwagon. Might cause some ruckus and loss a client, dont care, kid needs to be protected, hack or not.

I can appreciate your concern first off , with that being said I would let the idiot "try" to take the tree down his way , and what happens happens but it sounds like even getting into the kids head won't change the HO's mind much he wants "cheap" and that's that , and not that I am advocating unsafe work practice but you can't save the world , stupid is an incurable disease .......I've seen guys climb in trees that I don't even wanna park my truck along side ....

 

[GLOBOTREE]

I can appreciate your concern first off , with that being said I would let the idiot "try" to take the tree down his way , and what happens happens but it sounds like even getting into the kids head won't change the HO's mind much he wants "cheap" and that's that , and not that I am advocating unsafe work practice but you can't save the world , stupid is an incurable disease .......I've seen guys climb in trees that I don't even wanna park my truck along side ....

I most certainly disagree, stupid is not an uncurable disease, if you want to make a difference then try intervening this way, show up and save the kid from certain death or serious injury and then give him a lesson in business, cut him in$ and try your damnest to be a fair and good mentor. Show the kid that co-operation is a cure for stupid.

 

[treeclimber101]

I most certainly disagree, stupid is not an uncurable disease, if you want to make a difference then try intervening this way, show up and save the kid from certain death or serious injury and then give him a lesson in business, cut him in$ and try your damnest to be a fair and good mentor. Show the kid that co-operation is a cure for stupid.

I don't think showing up on a HO's property is nor the time or place to educate another individual on business and such , he estimated the work and was chosen for the job because of price so whats gonna change ? I refuse to support such carelessness on the part of the worker and the HO who obviously advocates doing something completely unsafe and has no idea about things that are of importance like INS. and safety .. Its a tough lesson to learn ..Its just my opinion , and yours opinion is valid as well ..

 

[Natewood]

I think the respect of human life and well being has to trump the idea of knowingly and willingly allow someone to potentially maim or kill themselves for the sake of eradicating lowballing competition

 

[ropensaddle]

I think the respect of human life and well being has to trump the idea of knowingly and willingly allow someone to potentially maim or kill themselves for the sake of eradicating lowballing competition

I think I would have to see the tree to agree. I have climbed a million dead trees some I should not have climbed but managed to do them. Careful probing and inspection is paramount but if after I determined it safe for me to climb and someone showed up at "MY job" they would get shown the road quick.

 

[Natewood]

i had a similar situation happen to me last seaon....workin on a huge maple, neighbor comes over asks for a quote.40"english walnut removal in backyard growing in a four foot area betwwen the garage and powerlines/fence.tree had some decay but grew all through the wires and over the garage and adjoining properties.We agree on a price,(800) and tell him I'll be over after my current job was finished to draw up the contract.By the time i got back, a guy with an s-10 with a 24ft ladder 5/16 utility line and a 024 with a 16' bar.HO tells me he's sorry but these guys were cheaper.He said they were roofers and gonna work on it after work for the next couple of weeks and put the debris on the curb for the city to pick up. now if it was even remotely possble for these guys to accomplish this,I wold've just walked awawy.i try to talk to the guys working,in a nice manner like"how do you plan on getting to the top?" "how are you gonna take down a 75ft tree with forty ft of rope?""how are you gonna stay attached to the tree while cutting?
",and "how are you going to cut those 28"leaders with a 16" saw?"
They prettty nuch said they were stubborn and persistent and would get it done. So, I tried talking to the HO. I explained that with the equipment they had it was impossible to remove the tree and an inement duisaster. And that without ins. he would probably be sued after they injured themselves Wel no one wanted to hear it and the next day i get the call.Within an hour after i left the were still working on the first branch,a 20in lateral.They hung it on their"rope" and the guy stands in the crotch and cuts it.The guy on the ground can't even hold the branch, itcomes down takers the service line down to the house ,springs back and slams the guy in the tree and knocked down his ladder.Broke his arm and a bunch of ribs and the fire dept had to get him down. The Ho wanted to sign the contract now and date it for the previous day. I said NO WAY.

But I can't help but feel a lil responsible for this injury bc i could have taken a much stronger stance to protect his well being. Being a storm chaser for years,I've seen more than my fair shair of fatalities, and i try to dedicate myself to not letting people die if i can help it. to let someone do it just bc they are stupid enough to try is a complete disregard for human life.I hope People that say "they'll learn a lesson the hard way" or"they had it coming" can sleep at night.

 

[ropensaddle]

i had a similar situation happen to me last seaon....workin on a huge maple, neighbor comes over asks for a quote.40"english walnut removal in backyard growing in a four foot area betwwen the garage and powerlines/fence.tree had some decay but grew all through the wires and over the garage and adjoining properties.We agree on a price,(800) and tell him I'll be over after my current job was finished to draw up the contract.By the time i got back, a guy with an s-10 with a 24ft ladder 5/16 utility line and a 024 with a 16' bar.HO tells me he's sorry but these guys were cheaper.He said they were roofers and gonna work on it after work for the next couple of weeks and put the debris on the curb for the city to pick up. now if it was even remotely possble for these guys to accomplish this,I wold've just walked awawy.i try to talk to the guys working,in a nice manner like"how do you plan on getting to the top?" "how are you gonna take down a 75ft tree with forty ft of rope?""how are you gonna stay attached to the tree while cutting?
",and "how are you going to cut those 28"leaders with a 16" saw?"
They prettty nuch said they were stubborn and persistent and would get it done. So, I tried talking to the HO. I explained that with the equipment they had it was impossible to remove the tree and an inement duisaster. And that without ins. he would probably be sued after they injured themselves Wel no one wanted to hear it and the next day i get the call.Within an hour after i left the were still working on the first branch,a 20in lateral.They hung it on their"rope" and the guy stands in the crotch and cuts it.The guy on the ground can't even hold the branch, itcomes down takers the service line down to the house ,springs back and slams the guy in the tree and knocked down his ladder.Broke his arm and a bunch of ribs and the fire dept had to get him down. The Ho wanted to sign the contract now and date it for the previous day. I said NO WAY.

But I can't help but feel a lil responsible for this injury bc i could have taken a much stronger stance to protect his well being. Being a storm chaser for years,I've seen more than my fair shair of fatalities, and i try to dedicate myself to not letting people die if i can help it. to let someone do it just bc they are stupid enough to try is a complete disregard for human life.I hope People that say "they'll learn a lesson the hard way" or"they had it coming" can sleep at night.

Yeah that is a definite disaster waiting to happen. I had three barefoot machete yielding ski rope no saddle illegals that was worse though, gotta wonder about a home owners logic hiring someone like that?

 

[mckeetree]

Yeah that is a definite disaster waiting to happen. I had three barefoot machete yielding ski rope no saddle illegals that was worse though, gotta wonder about a home owners logic hiring someone like that?

They hire them because they are dirt cheap. But don't think they can't sue you if they get hurt, at least in Texas they can. We carry ins. on our employees and I try to use that as a sales tool but some folks could care less. An illegal got hurt on a job (it was an all illegal company) near me two years ago and sued that guys nuts off. He (the illegal) got some lawyer in Dallas and I mean they have kicked this guys sack off. In Texas your HO liability part doesn't have to pay if it's a "contractor" that sues you. See, in Texas, that is the problem....they let ANYBODY be a contractor.

 

[ropensaddle]

They hire them because they are dirt cheap. But don't think they can't sue you if they get hurt, at least in Texas they can. We carry ins. on our employees and I try to use that as a sales tool but some folks could care less. An illegal got hurt on a job (it was an all illegal company) near me two years ago and sued that guys nuts off. He (the illegal) got some lawyer in Dallas and I mean they have kicked this guys sack off. In Texas your HO liability part doesn't have to pay if it's a "contractor" that sues you. See, in Texas, that is the problem....they let ANYBODY be a contractor.

It was bad when I left Dallas in the eighties, I can only imagine it now.

 

[sgreanbeans]

I will try and get over there to take a pic. I will tell u this, as I was looking at it, on the ground was a 10" dia branch that fell out a couple days before, so I am told by the HO, I picked it up and it broke into pieces with my hands! Tree should have been taken years ago.

 

[ropensaddle]

I will try and get over there to take a pic. I will tell u this, as I was looking at it, on the ground was a 10" dia branch that fell out a couple days before, so I am told by the HO, I picked it up and it broke into pieces with my hands! Tree should have been taken years ago.

Is it Chinese elm? Here the elms seem to petrify Ulmus Americana! Was there many conks at the base?

 

[sgreanbeans]

You got it! Its at that stage! super light, yet still solid, but will crumble with the slightest pressure.
Good call!

 

[sgreanbeans]

No conks, their may have been, but HO uses base as storage locker for junk, has a pile of crap all the way around it, looks like he was dumping oil there too. HO wanted the trunk left up about 10 feet so he could still use it to prop up all these metal bracket things he was painting. Tree had no chance when this guy moved in. Not sure how long it has been dead, he tried telling me it has not been that long, B.S.! Id say 5 years, but just guessing

 

[ropensaddle]

You got it! Its at that stage! super light, yet still solid, but will crumble with the slightest pressure.
Good call!

Sounds like Chinese elm, hell their brittle green, willow like:jawdrop:

 

[mckeetree]

It was bad when I left Dallas in the eighties, I can only imagine it now.

I went into business for myself in Feb. of 1986 and I remember some problems back then but not much. It seemed to really start to get worse around '96 and progressed steadily until the present.

 

[prentice110]

Lowballing and current conversation aside, what do you guys think this season will be like? Same as the last 2, better?, worse? I think the fuel price is gonna kick me in the balls like it did in 07'.

 

[prentice110]

I most certainly disagree, stupid is not an uncurable disease, if you want to make a difference then try intervening this way, show up and save the kid from certain death or serious injury and then give him a lesson in business, cut him in$ and try your damnest to be a fair and good mentor. Show the kid that co-operation is a cure for stupid.

chances are this kid doesnt give a flying fig newton about trees, tree work or anything except how hes going to pay his rent this month, or how hes going to fill his pipe. Probly some out of work constuction guy. Theyve been running amuck the last 2-3 years. Getting to be worse than the illeagals by me. Mexico is the least of my problems. Every established landscaper is now a 'tree company'. Any idiot with a wild thing and something that resembles a pick up truck is a 'tree guy'.

 

[TreeAce]

Lowballing and current conversation aside, what do you guys think this season will be like? Same as the last 2, better?, worse? I think the fuel price is gonna kick me in the balls like it did in 07'.

So far so good for me. Def better than last year. I am def worried about fuel prices but not to much cuz I have been able to keep most of my work pretty darn close to home. I hope it stays like that. I have politely turned down giving some estimates because they were to far. For me "to far" is 40 minute and over. Even 30 min is pushing it. Just not worth my time and gas for a chance I wont get the job anyway.