I use synthetic in my truck, because it starts a lot easier when cold with 5w-40 vs 15w-40, or at least what passes for cold here. Canadians would laugh.
Mix ratio -- observing the blue smoke
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Not laughing , cold & damp with a wind chill is still cold lol.
Termite
Don't t remember BRP officially discontinuing recommending synthetic oil usage within any of their recreational equipment engines . They have always provided oem mineral oil , semi synthetic & full synthetic oil products . I do recall when some new ester based. syn oils caused some sporadic problems with sea-doo water craft internals ( gaskets & seals) on older models 1999- 2003 I believe . Anyhow same occurred within the automotive field with older cars lol. Anyhow today all BRP engines come from the factory with full synthetic oil , that tells you the manufacturer is confident of the oils merits and warranties same .
Confused with how it disperses in gasoline is a liability Ted ? Synthetic oils mix more readily and stay in suspension much better than conventional oils . Synthetic oils by design have better cold weather pour points , much better film strength and cling protection . I have ran full syn ester and even base Benol Caster in both air cooled & liquid cooled snowmobiles for yrs , thousands of miles with no incidents , with oil ratios as leans as 80:1 . Please advise of your personal failures within syn oil usage thanks !
Sean don't believe you all that far off the mark bud ! The merits of premium synthetic oils over conventional mineral oils is well known . How Syn oils in 4 cycle vs 2 cycle applications are utilized perhaps is in question in your post lol. However the benefits of premium syn oils over mineral oils within engine service protection remain relevant , especially within a severe service application which diesel engines fall within wether 4 cycle or 2 cycle . The extreme temperature & pressures that a diesel works within taxes the protection of any oil , especially intercooler turbo diesel applications ! Anyhow good post and interesting real life comparison Sean . Note : the only downside I have found within Synthetic grade oils is evident in older high mileage engines where the low viscosity syn oil friction modifiers cannot thicken quickly enough to reduce leakage via worn seals and gaskets or rings and consumption can cause issues . I have always used Rotella oils in my diesels , mineral in my 1989 F250 Navstar diesel and today Rotella T6 in my 2002 2500 Cummins !
Broken I am not sure where to start with your question about petro vs. synthetic.
As with most products there is no clear winner. No one can compare a liquid cooled snowmobile power plant to a chainsaw motor. The two are just very different. No matter what the home owner who cuts his small trees around the house as compared to a logger who runs his saws 30 hrs a week is not a fair comparison. Synthetic oils have a much higher flash point than most petro based oils so synthetic oil does not burn cleanly in the combustion chamber, but leaves a residue behind in the cylinder which will lubricate moving parts. Synthetic oil because of it's high flash point leaves unburned residue in the cylinder or some what like carbon. Petro based oils burn more cleanly, but burn none the less leaving burnt oil or carbon build up in the cylinder. Because how it burns in gasoline the carbon is more easily burnt in the process other wise carbon build up would be a huge issue. Now introduce additive that fight against the normal process that occurs and we are back to the beginning. There are pros and cons for every single product which one will work just fine for most applications. As I often say the wood does not care how it is cut or the snowmobile will enjoy buzzing along during a snow storm will also be happy. Thanks
Thanks Ted for the prompt & concise reply . I agree that in most cases that group III. & perhaps even group II mineral oils are probably sufficient for the majority of recreational firewood cutters . My concern is at richer conventional oil ratios ( carbon fouling). As far as snowmobile and chainsaw similiarites your correct can't compare liquid cooling vs air cooling , not apples to apples . However high performance air cooled snowmobiles compare favourably within internal temperature and pressures during extreme commercial saw usage . Racing snowmobiles and commercial saw users push their engines to the max . Further the carbon fouling has been an issue with both mineral and base synthetics for yrs , therefore the reduced ratio technology and additives requirement in both groups . However the miscibilty of syn oils in proper 50:1 ratios give adequate film strength to protect metal & prevent carbon fouling. regardless of rated flash point , since at their leaner ratios and todays hotter high performance engines , very little residue is left over. At higher ratios the dispersents take over. Good discussion bud , I agree each engine application has it unique oil usage and mix requirement !
In the 20's and occasionally teens F. It's definitely cold, just not Minnesota/Wisconsin/Canada cold.
Still think y'all are like a bunch of old women arguing vehemently about which way the washcloths need to be folded. It doesn't matter. There's a thousand right ways to do the job, all kinds of oil mixes that'll make it so engine wear due to oil issues will not be the lifespan bottleneck of your saw. This has got to be one of the most solved issues of all time, but that's the internet I guess. I'm guilty too, I'm reading it. Well, some of it.
Northern Minnesota & Northern Ontario both Qualify as the "Great White North" -50 f COLD . Raced snowmobiles in Northern Wisconsin. (Mercer Wisconsin) in the middle 70,s with D . Trickle of NASCAR fame & open wheeled modified / super late model stock car legend . It was really cold -35 f. had to mix & store the av. gas / caster mix in the heated sled hauler to keep it in suspension P.S. I agree with all oil , in most recreational use with proper tuning will preventing grenading of 2 T equipment . However numerous novice operators just turn the key and go unfortunately , relying on word of mouth and what the bottle says. I understand your rational and agree mostly
.farmkid2590
ArboristSite Lurker
I ran a used 029 Farm Boss for over 10 years on Amsoil Sabre at 80:1-100:1. It finally scored the cylinder but I am pretty sure it was the loose muffler that did it. l let it go to give me a reason to purchase a 362. I can also say that I learned of Amsoil from a neighbor and his buddies who ran enduro and they mixed at 100:1. From their accounts they all seriously cut down on engine overhauls and seriously picked up on wins. Claimed they could run wide open for a several mile stretch where all others could not unless they wanted to lock up their engines. I also ran a Yamaha Banshee at 100:1 with no ill effects for about 10 years. I can guarantee it picked up a ton of power doing so as my cousin and I bought a pair. Both were pretty much dead on powerwise for the first few months until I switched to Amsoil. It became very clear there was a huge power gain.
Broken were you at The world champion races at Eagle River wis around 1980.I was there i have saw -58 below zero here in Northwestern On with no wind .It was -35 with wind at Eagle it was the coldest days of my life.Every one was inside hardly anyone watching the race which was totally boring as Villinue could have lapped them many times over.
Kash
Kash
Yep raced there from 1974 , Polaris 650 Starfire triple freeair , through 1984 Scorpion formula 440 for Parent company Arctic Cat with Brad Hulings who had left the Rosseau Minnesota Crew. Jacques was even more dominant in 1982 with his twin track Bombardier . I received frost bite numerous times , the worst Ironwood Michigan in 75 running Merc. L/C 440 twister with Jim Adema of Thunder jet fame , against Brad Hulings & Steve Thorson !
That is coming from EPA influence! How do you like moonshine in your gas?
I hate it bud. ! I have seen much more ethanol related engine failures than oil lol .
Ran as lean as 80:1 in liquid cooled engines in competition with precise fuel / air carb tuning . Not apples to apples with small air cooled engines , Sabre is a quality oil none the less .
Broken I was there in 82 I used to do alot of deer hunting buddy had a hunt shack up by Mercer had good buddies from Rhinelander and Eagle River.Had some crazy wild good times you gotta love all those taverns in those northern towns.I was always treated super well by the guys in these northern towns.I made alot of money shooting pool and playing cards.Wish I could go back in time.
Kinda , hijacking this oil thread bud , but yeah apparently we've shared lots in common (billiards & hunting ) As to Professional racing , I respected Bob Eastman and Leroy Linblad of Polaris along with Jim Adema as the true Pioneers of the Sport . Wes Pesek , Jim Bernat and Larry Rugland are other peers that continued that legacy along with Mike Trapp. , Jim Dimmerman and youngsters like Brad Hulings and Steve Thorson and Jerry Bunke . Anyhow nice remincing , like you I miss those early years ! P.S. you should have seen Yvon Durhamel and Gille Villenerve side by side in Kawartha in 1975 Peterbourough World Sno-Pro Championships !
My apologies to every one on this OIL thread.That tiny bit of remembering the good old days beat oil threads by a thousand percent.
kash
kash
Husky77
ArboristSite Operative
Oil has come on a lot since the 70's, I raced bike both road & dirt and run saws for longer than I care to remember. One thing you should all agree on and thats the set up!! if your chain is dull the saw works harder gets hot more than with a sharp chain. All you firewood cutters hitting dirt on the bark and leaning hard on the saw to get the job done (yes we all been there) safe yourself and the saw and spend 5 mins giving it a quick sharpen. Your saw will definitely last longer whatever oil you use. What is the best oil, well we could go on with that for years.......... leave that up to you.
Just for the record, my first saw was 16:1 recommended by the manufacturer, it never gave any trouble. After that all my saws been fed on 50:1 again no trouble.
A well set up saw and sharp chain saves more than most people will ever know.
Just for the record, my first saw was 16:1 recommended by the manufacturer, it never gave any trouble. After that all my saws been fed on 50:1 again no trouble.
A well set up saw and sharp chain saves more than most people will ever know.
junglejohnny28
ArboristSite Member
I use blendzall from klotz for past 25 years , basically I found 2 oz per gallon of this has been perfect for my saws.Never blew a motor and rebuilt a saw after 22 years that didn’t really need it , snd inside was surprisingly good condition .
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