No habla ingles

[lone wolf]

Why?

wrong when someone said their isn't any of them on here that's all i am saying

 

[RVALUE]

Newsawtooth: Points taken, and slightly disagreed with, respectfully. Yes it was biased of me on my point about the pilots, and I appologize.

Some of my family came over on the Mayflower. However, I did not come over on the Mayflower. I had nothing to do with where and when I was born. However, I do not want persons who are not a legal part of this country, influencing our governing. This is what may happen with the new census. And this is wrong.

If the intent is to take over this country, then so be it. The same spirit that gave us our indepence may very well rise again, and supress it. And yes, I have been discriminated against, and it's not fair. Or fun.

The crime is not in "a person" trying to make a better lifestyle for themselves. This is commendable and expected. The crime is someone trying to take away my lifestyle. This is unacceptable.


FWIW, 2/3 of my brother in laws are hispanic.

And about the sunset, ???????

 

[mckeetree]

Rvalue, sbhooper, mckeetree, you are in the bitter misinformed minority. Sbhooper worked for the feds so he can be forgiven for buying into the old arguments about immigration, it bought his government pension. The rest of you seem to have forgotten that you all are children of immigrants, unless you are from one of the indigenous tribes. You think the Irish weren't branded the same things that you are slinging at the Chicanos, Mckeetree? Filthy stinking Irish and all their babies suckling off the system. And Rvalue, how quaint for you to see a real live Mexican pilot? It's incredible those poor confused people can summon the strength to read, much less fly. I have no problem with conservatives, but that is not blanket justification for racism. Because, that is what you are, maybe you're comfortable with it maybe not. Just look in the mirror and say to yourself I will not accept any idea of life other than the image I see. Enjoy the twilight fellas, the sun has set on your world view.

Somehow, and I don't know how, you have gotten federal employees, legal immigrants, illegal aliens, Chicanos, Irish immigrants, racism, realism, reality, history and conservatism all mixed up. That post is just ridiculous. You don't even have enough sense to judge me.

 

[newsawtooth]

You picked the fight.

Look out with all the synonyms before somebody thinks you are dumb and ignorant. I think people from Mexifornia should not be allowed to comment in threads concerning Mexicans, Gays, Democrats or State budgets.

Do you really think you can say things like this and not be judged? I do not begrudge you your opinion, at least contribute to the dialogue if you're going to start it. Your clarity is shackled by your narrow mind. Immigration is complex, go ahead ignore the context and boil it down to some palatable catch phrase. That does only you a disservice. Your ancestors immigrated for the same reasons that those guys in the Wright truck did. How are you different from those you rail against?

And gr8scott72, thanks for the negative rep and the note "Not wanting illegals in my country doesn't make me a racist". I have never said anything about illegal aliens, nor did I call you specifically a racist. You weren't even on my radar. What did I say that offended you? Are you threatened by immigration, by competition, by free enterprise? That's what this is about isn't it, competition for resources? The cause of most wars.

 

[mckeetree]

Do you really think you can say things like this and not be judged? I do not begrudge you your opinion, at least contribute to the dialogue if you're going to start it. Your clarity is shackled by your narrow mind. Immigration is complex, go ahead ignore the context and boil it down to some palatable catch phrase. That does only you a disservice. Your ancestors immigrated for the same reasons that those guys in the Wright truck did. How are you different from those you rail against?

And gr8scott72, thanks for the negative rep and the note "Not wanting illegals in my country doesn't make me a racist". I have never said anything about illegal aliens, nor did I call you specifically a racist. You weren't even on my radar. What did I say that offended you? Are you threatened by immigration, by competition, by free enterprise? That's what this is about isn't it, competition for resources? The cause of most wars.

Say things like that? Jeff was the one who started in with the dumb, ignorant idiot stuff. I can contribute plenty to this dialogue buddy, that's for sure. I am sick of being labeled a racist just because it gripes my ass that we are being forced into a situation where it is acceptable to live and work here and not understand a GD word of English. I griped the other day about a phone message at the DOT saying push "one" for English and some assclown there called me a racist. I am not a racist but I have figured out what you are and let's just leave it at that. I know what I am and I know what you are.

 

[ropensaddle]

yell imigracion real loud, solve the problem quick.

They aren't scared of them as they don't do ####. I tried to call immigration was put on hold by automated secretary for four hours. Immigration is a joke we need to jail our politicians for obstruction of justice.

 

[ropensaddle]

Do you really think you can say things like this and not be judged? I do not begrudge you your opinion, at least contribute to the dialogue if you're going to start it. Your clarity is shackled by your narrow mind. Immigration is complex, go ahead ignore the context and boil it down to some palatable catch phrase. That does only you a disservice. Your ancestors immigrated for the same reasons that those guys in the Wright truck did. How are you different from those you rail against?

And gr8scott72, thanks for the negative rep and the note "Not wanting illegals in my country doesn't make me a racist". I have never said anything about illegal aliens, nor did I call you specifically a racist. You weren't even on my radar. What did I say that offended you? Are you threatened by immigration, by competition, by free enterprise? That's what this is about isn't it, competition for resources? The cause of most wars.

Immigration is only complex by libbers 22 shells are cheap and would take care of both. Ok you can call me racist now but the truth is your mindset is a traitor to the American work force, so it don't have no impact. You persons sympathizing with criminals are obstructing justice, those putting up sanctuaries are traitors, as well as, those that provide employment.
Lets just get politics out of the way and reclaim our land and country. And for the ones of you traitors which say it was theirs, remember we bought much of it and paid the rest in blood, so if you like them so much go to Mexico with them imo.

 

[sbhooper]

You are correct, Ropensaddle. I worked for immigration for 27 years and it is a broken beauracracy. The field people would clean up the problem in a heartbeat, but the upper management are all political puppets and don't allow anybody to do their jobs. That is why I bailed early. It was either that or go postal. When I startede throwing crap, my boss would not even come into my office!

 

[gr8scott72]

And gr8scott72, thanks for the negative rep and the note "Not wanting illegals in my country doesn't make me a racist". I have never said anything about illegal aliens, nor did I call you specifically a racist. You weren't even on my radar. What did I say that offended you? Are you threatened by immigration, by competition, by free enterprise? That's what this is about isn't it, competition for resources? The cause of most wars.

I have no problem with conservatives, but that is not blanket justification for racism.

I am a conservative and feel like many other conservatives do in that illegals should not be here no matter what their race. You labeling conservatives racist makes me fall in that category and that is why I sent you the comment.

I have no problem with immigration, just the illegal part. I have no problem with competition, just illegal competition.

 

[gr8scott72]

You persons sympathizing with criminals are obstructing justice, those putting up sanctuaries are traitors, as well as, those that provide employment.

One step further is all the home owners that hire a company that employs illegals.

 

[mckeetree]

I worked for immigration for 27 years and it is a broken beauracracy. The field people would clean up the problem in a heartbeat, but the upper management are all political puppets and don't allow anybody to do their jobs.

I talked to a guy last year that worked there for 16 years and he said exactly what you are saying. He said cleaning it up is not a problem, sending them back is not a problem, the problem is not being allowed to do your job.

 

[banshee67]

I know most of them are hard working people. I do however care what language they speak. If you are going to live here speak the GD language. This is America. I will tell you one thing they can do, they can turn a neighborhood third world in three years flat. I don't think you need to be in charge of immigration reform. Well, for that matter several folks on here don't.

well of course they need to learn english, that goes without saying . . .
but other than that, there are a lot of ignorant stereotypes getting thrown around in here
a mans language barrier should not be his defining factor

at the same time , the word "they" or "them" is pretty bad, i am guilty too, but using words like that all we are doing is making big sweeping generalizations about a whole race, which is pretty ignorant on ALL of our parts , all white people arnt the same, aand either are all mexicans

 

[tree md]

On the subject of not speaking English: I have posted this before but I think it merits mention once more here. One of the tree services I hired on with early in my career liked to hire cheap illegal labor. The old guy probably did keep the illegals around because they were cheap and he could abuse them. I was the only white guy on the crew. The Mexican guys were great workers and the climber was actaully better than me. We did mostly crane work and the climber had more experience at that than I did. The only reason I stayed around and put up with the old guys #### is I wanted to learn how to do aerial lifts. About a week after I quit the guy got fried by his own crane. The line got stretched out and he was yelling at the Mexicans (who did not speak English) to not take the choker off of the log. They thought that the guy was yelling at them to hurry up, took the choker off and let the line swing back into the powerline. Can't really blame the Mexicans. They were used to the guy cussing them to make them work faster. Hard to blame anyone. It was just a miscommunication that ended in tragedy.

I will not get into the politics of immigration but will state that I think anyone working this job, with all the dangers, should be on the same page and speak the same language.

 

[Toddppm]

at the same time , the word "they" or "them" is pretty bad, i am guilty too, but using words like that all we are doing is making big sweeping generalizations about a whole race, which is pretty ignorant on ALL of our parts , all white people arnt the same, aand either are all mexicans

and all latinos are not Mexicans

 

[lone wolf]

link http://www.flickr.com/photos/jacob1201/with/4407683432/

 

[ropensaddle]

You are correct, Ropensaddle. I worked for immigration for 27 years and it is a broken beauracracy. The field people would clean up the problem in a heartbeat, but the upper management are all political puppets and don't allow anybody to do their jobs. That is why I bailed early. It was either that or go postal. When I startede throwing crap, my boss would not even come into my office!

Yeah about how I had it figured so the higher ups all the way to senate house and presidency need jailed for being criminals as they are aiding and a bedding the ruin of the American dream. PS: also out in wierdafornia the illegals were put on news for burning the American flag on our soil I still for the life of me don't understand why they were not fragged. That is an act of war imo they better not do it where I am.

 

[BC WetCoast]

Just curious, what differentiates an illegal alien from an unprocessed refugee? Besides an illegal alien comes from Mexico.

Functionally, having more than 1 official language takes some getting used to. Ask Switzerland where there are 4. Seriously, we have a very diverse ethnic culture here in Vancouver as befits a port city. And while the immigrant children can speak multiple languages, often grandma only speaks Chinese, Punjabi, Tagalog, Korean, Iranian, Vietnamese (to name a few) etc. So in the end, for the city to FUNCTION, services (commercial as well as government) need to be provided/available in many languages.

I understand your frustration with immigrant labour (legal or illegal). My buddy was a drywall contractor who eventually got out of the business because companies run by immigrants drove the prices through the floor. And there are all the stories about 4 families living in the same house. He ultimately decided to change trades to something more lucrative.

I'm beginning to see this as a finger in the dyke argument. Worldwide travel is easy and people are immigrating to many places for a variety of reasons. Instead of being concerned with poor people immigrating into the US, you should be more concerned with very rich and powerful people emigrating out of the US (along with their tax inputs) to tax havens. (To those who aren't concerned about this, the stat I heard was the top 5% of income earners pay > than 50% of the income tax).

 

[newsawtooth]

RValue, thank you for your reasoned response to my somewhat antagonistic post. I maintain that the issue is complex, more complex than Rope's simple solution. I do not condone illegal immigration, for reasons other than most on this board. I have not suggested a sanctuary, because there is no such thing. Workers without papers are beholden to their employers and exploited because of their immigration status. Most self employed people on this board can empathize with that, that's why we work for ourselves.

Illegal immigrants are not the burden on American services that some would claim. Some economists assert that they are integral to our economy, they contribute in labor, sales, and taxes without any of the benefits of citizenship. If you dispute this, I encourage you to attempt to receive benefits without a US ID. Furthermore the argument that aliens are filling jails and burdening social services is disingenuous. Black males are incarcerated at a rate of 4,000 per 100,000, hispanic males at a rate of 1,300 per 100,000. Not surprising for a country with the largest prison population per captia in the world. Most, upwards of 50% for drug offenses. Some economists peg the contribution of illegal aliens to the economy of around $20 billion while detractors pin the burden at around $10 billion. It is impossible to know.

Perhaps we should move this to the Political forum. What does immigration reform mean to you? I don't have an answer. There is an important discussion here. We in the green industry see it more than most as do those in construction and agriculture because they are labor intensive industries. Let's not resort to name calling, myself included, and instead flesh out the issue.

 

[ropensaddle]

RValue, thank you for your reasoned response to my somewhat antagonistic post. I maintain that the issue is complex, more complex than Rope's simple solution. I do not condone illegal immigration, for reasons other than most on this board. I have not suggested a sanctuary, because there is no such thing. Workers without papers are beholden to their employers and exploited because of their immigration status. Most self employed people on this board can empathize with that, that's why we work for ourselves.

Illegal immigrants are not the burden on American services that some would claim. Some economists assert that they are integral to our economy, they contribute in labor, sales, and taxes without any of the benefits of citizenship. If you dispute this, I encourage you to attempt to receive benefits without a US ID. Furthermore the argument that aliens are filling jails and burdening social services is disingenuous. Black males are incarcerated at a rate of 4,000 per 100,000, hispanic males at a rate of 1,300 per 100,000. Not surprising for a country with the largest prison population per captia in the world. Most, upwards of 50% for drug offenses. Some economists peg the contribution of illegal aliens to the economy of around $20 billion while detractors pin the burden at around $10 billion. It is impossible to know.

Perhaps we should move this to the Political forum. What does immigration reform mean to you? I don't have an answer. There is an important discussion here. We in the green industry see it more than most as do those in construction and agriculture because they are labor intensive industries. Let's not resort to name calling, myself included, and instead flesh out the issue.

You must not have researched the health cost of illegal alien care. You have somewhat a point on incarceration as most cops have been steered away from them saying it is immigration problem. One look a weirdafornia's illegal gangs should tell any sane American they are a threat to this great country. I know a legal Mexican who told me that we better do something fast because we are not getting Mexico's good citizens that it is mostly gang member flooding the boarder. The flesh the issue time was twenty years ago now is a time to act and enforce the laws they wrote then by lethal force if necessary. I so wish we had a real American president with balls who would do what is right for this nation whether winny liberals liked it or not.


Ethical response is to mount m 50's every 600 yards down the rio send the ones here back and shoot any swimmer they see it wont take long to end it permanently. They will stop and also fine the people using and harboring them into poverty when a job needs done do it the security of this nation is demanding of swift and immediate action.

imo

 

[BC WetCoast]

You must not have researched the health cost of illegal alien care. You have somewhat a point on incarceration as most cops have been steered away from them saying it is immigration problem. One look a weirdafornia's illegal gangs should tell any sane American they are a threat to this great country. I know a legal Mexican who told me that we better do something fast because we are not getting Mexico's good citizens that it is mostly gang member flooding the boarder. The flesh the issue time was twenty years ago now is a time to act and enforce the laws they wrote then by lethal force if necessary. I so wish we had a real American president with balls who would do what is right for this nation whether winny liberals liked it or not.


Ethical response is to mount m 50's every 600 yards down the rio send the ones here back and shoot any swimmer they see it wont take long to end it permanently. They will stop and also fine the people using and harboring them into poverty when a job needs done do it the security of this nation is demanding of swift and immediate action.

imo

Unfortunately, I think you would find this approach as futile as the "War on Drugs". I'm not saying there shouldn't be laws and they shouldn't be enforced, what I'm saying is that the approach should come from the demand side of the equation not the supply side. What fighting the supply side is easier to quantify and is easier to sell to the average Joe, I think you would get a better return for your dollar fighting the demand side.

So my argument for the immigration issue stands, make life in Mexico better for the average citizen, through fighting political corruption, reducing the mega gap between rich and poor and creating a middle class, then less people will want to leave.

As for drugs, the Prohibition should teach us that banning a product where there is a demand will just lead to innovation on the part of those who want to supply. Compare this to tobacco, where the product isn't banned, but demand has been significantly reduced through other actions. How many people here smoke, but wish they could quit?