Take my challenge, I promise you will see results.

[Venomvpr900]

For the ones saying where's the fact or what not, I'm going to comment as much as I can.
For those of you who may know, some companies or employers have the right to certain such data/patents/discoveries, until such a time it is public. So without violating that and the rules of this site I can try and comment further.

For the comment that I don't know the facts about E15...
E15 1st came available last summer at a gas station in Kansas. It comes from a blend pump, minimum of 4 gallons are allowed to be purchased.
It is specifically set up that way because the local regulators WANT TO "prevent owners of lawnmowers, chainsaws and other smaller motorized devices from fueling up" in their small engine equipment?

Doesn't that direct quote alone tell you that this fuel is NOT MEANT for your small engine equipment?

2nd
I wouldn't throw a bunch of technical terms and such out here. What does it matter how many hours I've been in a lab or study with other people who do this for a living.
The whole point of the post was in the title, test it out yourself. No lab or special equipment needed for the regular pro out here.
Prove it to yourself.



The simplest way to put it is that ethanol is hydrostatic, corrosive, contains less energy than pure gasoline, and lastly just plain bad for your small engine. Go ahead and leave your take full of fuel all winter with ethanol gas, see for yourself.

After 6 pages of trying to derail a post, calling me a newbie or anything else you want, ONLY 1 person actually dumped the fuel out of his saws, and replaced it with NON-Ethanol Fuel.

Later this person posted that a noticeable difference was seen and heard in the saw, and it was tuned after changed after fuel. So making it leaner means the saw needed less fuel and more air hence greater combustion because the straight gas had more energy.

I'm not new to using a chainsaw. I cut enough wood each week to put out 1500 bundles of wood for a small local side business with my cousin.
I have 2 saws.
#1 is a Husqvarna 346xp with 18" bar that I use since 2011 with no issues since day 1.
#2 is a Husqvarna 346xp with 18" bar that is brand new still in the box purchased since it was going to be discontinued and I didn't want to purchase a 550XP until the technology was proven so I bought another 346xp for reserve.

Derail all you want, but demand better fuel. If I put pages and pages of data in a report on this, all backed with the scientific part of data, it would all show its cheaper for the politicians to subsidize the farmers corn by purchasing it and dumping it in the ocean or donating it to a poor country than refining it and putting it in our fuel. But what for? Just prove it for your self with a $5 of non ethanol fuel.

I'm actually in the process of getting a local suppler to bring in non ethanol fuel, because a lot of the guys doing landscape around here spend big money on their equipment in repairs due to the fuel.
And all the repair shops around here are saying its all due to the fuel.
Its going to be made available at a pay at the pump 24 hours for guys in the trades.

The whole point of the post was to get others here to actually do a test for themselves. Why have me prove it to you when your only going to believe it when you can see it anyway? Those would be real word results you could see and not dispute.

Fact e15 - it did come from a station in Kansas! Guy wanted us to endorse it at the local car dealers. Until the owner manual says e15 is ok I say no thanks. As for saws I just use 100LL for extra protection of my valve seats. And I makes me lean out quite a bit but I love how it makes the saws run and it smells good

 

[nmurph]

Fact e15 - it did come from a station in Kansas! Guy wanted us to endorse it at the local car dealers. Until the owner manual says e15 is ok I say no thanks. As for saws I just use 100LL for extra protection of my valve seats. And I makes me lean out quite a bit but I love how it makes the saws run and it smells good

Excess octane reduces performance...ask Chad.

 

[pataya1]

Well Ok then I'll explain again.

If you make the switch from fuel with ethanol in it E10 to non ethanol fuel, your going to have to turn your carb jets just a slight bit on the leaner side.

No where did I say hey guys grab the closest screwdriver and turn your H and L jets al the way up.
No where here did I say it's better to run a saw lean vs rich tune.

No where here am I knocking anyone else on this site like some of you seem to take joy in.

Some of you asked for facts, and I gave them.
Then some of you who tried to derail the earlier part of the post don't even try to see that facts are there, and they are sound.

Keep doing what your doing, because everyone has that right.

But maybe a few will read this and maybe they will make the choice that when or if they ever start having issues, maybe consider changing their fuel.

You got some data and facts out of me.
You've got the mom and pop shops all over America fixing small engines to put food on the table to back up these facts that the fuel plays a huge factor in the increase in repair work they see in the last decade.

You don't want convincing, no problem go run 5-10 gallons of e15 or pure ethanol in your saw and post how that goes.

This site is a good place to share experiences and free exchange of experience amongst people from all over the world.

Why not try pass on those ideas to others without the negativity, on this post or any others from anyone.

 

[ndlawrence]

Fact e15 - it did come from a station in Kansas! Guy wanted us to endorse it at the local car dealers. Until the owner manual says e15 is ok I say no thanks. As for saws I just use 100LL for extra protection of my valve seats. And I makes me lean out quite a bit but I love how it makes the saws run and it smells good

Just what valve seats are you protecting?....

 

[moody]

I highlighted in your post where you directly said a leaner tune is better. Like I've said before stop throwing sand in hopes of grabbing a stone here.

 

[Venomvpr900]

Just what valve seats are you protecting?....

Well you know the ones in the saws...they love it!!!:cool2:opcorn:opcorn:

 

[Gologit]

Well Ok then I'll explain again.








This site is a good place to share experiences and free exchange of experience amongst people from all over the world.

Why not try pass on those ideas to others without the negativity, on this post or any others from anyone.

You can explain all you want to, over and over again....and apparently you're more than willing to do that.

What you want is for everyone to agree with you, help you validate your ideas, pat you on the head, and thank you for all the wonderful information. Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen.

All you're really doing with your unrelenting dogmatic approach is alienating people. You don't really have any idea of the kind of people you're dealing with here, do you? Your condescending attitude is insulting to most of the membership here.

Believe me, the membership understands the gas problems. It's old ground and there's no need for you to keep preaching to us.

We've heard enough. More than enough. You're irritating. Worse than that, you're boring.

 

[fwgsaw]

Well let's see when I opened my full time shop 6 years ago 99% of my saw repair was due to lack of maintenance or just abuse and now 6 years later nothing has changed so I'm not convinced on how bad this e fuel is

 

[Modifiedmark]

Fact I've never seen a saw with valves.

Fact they've designed intake boots and fuel lines to handle ethanol

Fact performance wont vary enough to have a noticeable difference in production.

Never seen a rotary valve on a saw?

Please back up your facts on the intake boots and fuel lines to show exactly how much ethanol they have been designed to handle or are you saying there compatible with 100% ethanol?

Here is another fact, your just saying the word fact don't make it show fact either without proof.

Your really showing nothing more then the OP.

 

[moody]

Never seen a rotary valve on a saw?

Please back up your facts on the intake boots and fuel lines to show exactly how much ethanol they have been designed to handle or are you saying there compatible with 100% ethanol?

Here is another fact, your just saying the word fact don't make it show fact either without proof.

Your really showing nothing more then the OP.

That was the point. It's hard to read sarcasm and I apologize for that.

 

[pataya1]

I highlighted in your post where you directly said a leaner tune is better. Like I've said before stop throwing sand in hopes of grabbing a stone here.

No, I didn't say that.

Why don't you highlight what I really said.

 

[Venomvpr900]

Maybe we could switch over to taking about used motor oil for bar oil?opcorn:opcorn:

 

[chadihman]

Well you know the ones in the saws...they love it!!!:cool2:opcorn:opcorn:

This is a pic of a Stihl 4 mix engine that one of our tech's cut down to see the internals. Stihl uses these engines in pole saws and weed wackers. They have a good bit of torque that works great in my pole saw. There are valves and seats in there.:msp_sneaky: Those valves and seats don't need any special fuel cause those are Stihl valves:cool2:opcorn:opcorn:

 

[moody]

For those of us who keep talking about btu's it stands for British thermal unit
And a btu is:
The British thermal unit (BTU or Btu) is a traditional unit of energy equal to about 1055 joules. It is the amount of energy needed to cool or heat one pound of water by one degree Fahrenheit. In scientific contexts the BTU has largely been replaced by the SI unit of energy, the joule.

Since were talking about small engines here, the chainsaw were talking about heating water by 1 degree Fahrenheit not cooling.

Here's a statistic for you who think ethanol actually runs so much cooler.

Gasoline (base) 1 US gallon 114,000 BTU/gal
Gasoline (conventional, summer) 0.996 US gallon 114,500 BTU/gal
Gasoline (conventional, winter) 1.013 US gallons 112,500 BTU/gal

Ethanol (E10) 1.019 US gallons 111,836 BTU/gal

Ethanol gas is only slightly lower in Btu's than traditional winter mix gas like much of us have seen in the Midwest and East in the USA.

In terms of temperatures your talking 2 degrees difference and a piston or cylinder nor the plastic on your saw is going to notice that.

Were not talking huge power gains, or huge heat gains, or anything like that. I'm saying the overall performance of your saw will be better, the maintenance will be less, and the overall cost of ownership (or value to the owner of a work saw) will be improved.

Again, going back over and over the same thing I've stated several times.
This site and specifically the Chainsaw forum says tell us your problems.

Reading problems and problems from other saw owners I posted that I feel that ethanol is the biggest contributor to the problems in the saws and other small engines.

Your going to get a better tuned (slightly leaner) saw. Your going to get just a little bit of more performance too.
Your going to get a longer lasting saw and all of its components.

I would think all you out there that either modify a saw or have a modified saw want it to last forever considering you paid for the saw then all the mods to it.

All I can say is try it for yourself.

I forgot to highlight the part where that leaner tune was going to make things last longer:msp_scared:

 

[Venomvpr900]

This is a pic of a Stihl 4 mix engine that one of our tech's cut down to see the internals. Stihl uses these engines in pole saws and weed wackers. They have a good bit of torque that works great in my pole saw. There are valves and seats in there.:msp_sneaky: Those valves and seats don't need any special fuel cause those are Stihl valves:cool2:opcorn:opcorn:

Love it! Cool picture man!

 

[fwgsaw]

1. Fact I don't know everything

2. Fact I need to know more

3. Fact just buy dumping out one fuel and trying another and having to retune the saw doesn't necessarily mean that the non e fuel is so much better

 

[Modifiedmark]

This is a pic of a Stihl 4 mix engine that one of our tech's cut down to see the internals. Stihl uses these engines in pole saws and weed wackers. They have a good bit of torque that works great in my pole saw. There are valves and seats in there.:msp_sneaky: Those valves and seats don't need any special fuel cause those are Stihl valves:cool2:opcorn:opcorn:

Stihl uses that engine on blowers also.

I have one, but I'm not all sold on it yet..

 

[moody]

Love it! Cool picture man!

The 4mix stuff is a neat design. My cousin's trimmer is pretty studly I'm curious as to how far they'll take this.

 

[chadihman]

You can explain all you want to, over and over again....and apparently you're more than willing to do that.

What you want is for everyone to agree with you, help you validate your ideas, pat you on the head, and thank you for all the wonderful information. Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen.

All you're really doing with your unrelenting dogmatic approach is alienating people. You don't really have any idea of the kind of people you're dealing with here, do you? Your condescending attitude is insulting to most of the membership here.

Believe me, the membership understands the gas problems. It's old ground and there's no need for you to keep preaching to us.

We've heard enough. More than enough. You're irritating. Worse than that, you're boring.

That's harsh Man!!! Ha ha you can't ban me:msp_biggrin:

We all need to chill a bit and do unto others as you would have others do unto you. Let's not forget that everybody was designed a little different. My wife thinks shoes are cool. I think there boring and she thinks my Chainsaw collection and dyno are boring. What's boring to you isn't boring to everyone else. He's also new here so he didn't see all the fuel threads as some of the old timers have. I read all of the ops post's and didn't think they were that bad. He backed up what you guys gave him heck about. If his facts are wrong I think it's proper to kindly correct him but giving him crap about being boring and a newby isn't very nice.

 

[Gologit]

That's harsh Man!!! Ha ha you can't ban me:msp_biggrin:

We all need to chill a bit and do unto others as you would have others do unto you. Let's not forget that everyone wasn't designed the same. What's boring to you isn't boring to everyone else. He's also new here so he didn't see all the fuel threads as some of the old timers have. I read all of the ops post's and didn't think they were that bad. He backed up what you guys gave him heck about. If his facts are wrong I think it's proper to kindly correct him but giving him crap about being boring and a newby isn't very nice.

Get your dyno fixed yet?