The Chainsawr's Efco Story (Please read this if you're considering buying one.)

[bigredd]

This experience is confirmation that there will never be any challenge to Stihl and Husqvarna's dominance in the chainsaw market. Other OPE such as trimmer, blowers, mowers, etc. are more open for challenge by niche players such as Shindaiwa, Redmax and Echo.

 

[timmcat]

Ok, I'll stir the pot, and get the troll's attention. The only player big enough to compete with Husky and Stihl is Echo/Yamabiko. The company is large enough, they have enough technology, they have enough production capability, and their saws are really coming around, where the big two are building crap in the $300 and down range, Echo builds a nice light saw with great support after the fact. Where Echo needs improvement is above 60cc, the CS600P is a great saw, but the 680 and 8000 are so far behind the times that they're barely better than a two man buck tecnologywise.

 

[mikefunaro]

Ok, I'll stir the pot, and get the troll's attention. The only player big enough to compete with Husky and Stihl is Echo/Yamabiko. The company is large enough, they have enough technology, they have enough production capability, and their saws are really coming around, where the big two are building crap in the $300 and down range, Echo builds a nice light saw with great support after the fact. Where Echo needs improvement is above 60cc, the CS600P is a great saw, but the 680 and 8000 are so far behind the times that they're barely better than a two man buck tecnologywise.

Is Echo still strong in most markets?

In the northeast I used to see all LCOs using echo trimmers and backpack blowers. Way back, when they had the pb 58 or whatever it was with the black exposed roll cage type frame. Lots of their mid range 25cc trimmers too.

Now I see hardly any pros with echo, and it seems like most of them went to redmax. I can't tell you how many redmax backpacks I have seen that are like 10 years old and beat to all hell and they're still going.

 

[Arrowhead]

Some places have terrible customer service also..... :msp_sneaky:

 

[loogaboo]

Well I just bought a new Efco 156 and have only ran one tank of gas thru it. I have to say I love the saw and it seems to cut every bit as well as my 262xp Husky or 119 Dolmar. I was going to sell either the Husky or Dolmar, as I did not think I needed 3 saws. I like having a new saw, but I do not have any problem keeping my other saws in like new condition either. The Dolmar is getting a little hard to get parts for, but of coarse the Husky is easy. The 5 year warrantee on the new Efco was a good selling point, but I will admit the $400 price tag was why I bought this saw instead of paying $300 more for an equivilant Husky. If I have a new saw that is under warantee I would like that warantee to be honored, but used xp Husky's are not cheap and I would be hard pressed to have less than what I have in this new Efco after I fixed every little thing that always seems to be needed to get a used saw in good shape. I can work on my own stuff, however, I do not want to be stuck with something I can't get parts for in the future or cost more to fix than it is worth. Is this a concern?

 

[Javelin]

Echo could be a big time player if they would change there marketing and keep producing top of the line stuff. Unfortunately they are looking at husky and stihl and thinking we cannot get out of the box stores or husky takes all of them. And we need to stack dealer on top of dealer like stihl does. If they would change that it would take a little more time but it would benefit them in the long run.

 

[spike60]

IMO, Echo has never put a serious effort into the saw market. They've concentrated their efforts on trimmers and backpacks. But I agree with Timcat that they are the only remaining player big enough to take a shot at it should they choose to. But even for them, it would take a serious amount of work and time to take a bite out of Husky and Stihl in the pro arena. Who's left after them? Dolmar, Solo and Efco will never be major factors. Jonsered is obviously not a true independent; they're more like Husky's little brother tagging along. But they do benefit from Husky's technology and can stay in the market as long as they want to.

The guy who asked about future parts support for his new 156 does in my view have a legitimate concern. Parts for saws like that can cut both ways. One, if it becomes an orphan brand, and two, saws that sell in small numbers mean there are not that many out in the field that can be sources for used parts down the road.

 

[hoeyrd2110]

i get the feeling dolmar will be buying other saws companies and making a conglomerate like electrolux did. makita could buy up efco and the like and be a real powerhouse with 2 seperate lines. this is the same thing i feel echo is doing. shinny is going to be home store stuff(my guess) and echo will be the premium brand. electrolux wrote the book on how to take over the OPE market...i see everyone but stihl reading it. echo will grow stronger over the next few years most definetly moving up, tied in the second spot , husky will stay the center of the universe, stihl will be right there with echo, with the makita conglomerate bringing up the rear but still a good chunk enough to prosper and stay alive.

that is until our globalcoolglobalwarmpoleshiftchangingseasonsemmissionsuninformed selves outlaw 2 stroke all together....then it'll all go to hell:msp_unsure:....like it hasn't already

from what i heard from my echo dist is they are bringing a new "BIG" saw i think 85-90cc's and definetly a new 70cc deal time will tell when they get out in the field and get flogged enough and impress enough to make a difference. hopefully not to little to late

 

[retoocs555]

Just a few more responses/comments from the posts above.

We were one of the very top Efco dealers in the USA. Even so, Efco represented a very small, single digit portion of our overall take. Other than the future hassle and cost of servicing our customers Efcos still technically under warranty, this has very little impact on our bottom line (Thanks for the concern guys, but nobody has to worry about The Chainsawr going out of business!).

When somebody comes in with a problem under warranty I can't send them to an EDM Efco dealer because they do not exist. I can't even submit a claim under warranty to be denied because as of 2/1/13 they canceled our dealership. In four days we have already had a couple null Efco warranty events. I tell the customer what happened and offer them the part at cost with free installation, or a very, very, very healthy trade in on a new Dolmar that we can support.

More or less I just wanted this info out in the world for future Efco customers and potential new dealers to read. Many of the Efco dealers in the Northeast, and across the country are also MY customers. I know that no other region has had the problems we have had in our territory, but I also know that I have not talked to a single NE Efco dealer who will resign with EDM. They are all pissed. Granted I talk with the type of dealerships who buy obsolete parts from us, not rental places etc.

 

[spike60]

i get the feeling dolmar will be buying other saws companies and making a conglomerate like electrolux did. makita could buy up efco and the like and be a real powerhouse with 2 seperate lines. this is the same thing i feel echo is doing. shinny is going to be home store stuff(my guess) and echo will be the premium brand.

Let's think this over a little more. Looking at what Electrolux did, it would seem that the logic behind buying another company is to get one of two things; market share, (Jonsered, Poulan), or technology, (Red Max).

Makita would get neither with Efco which has laughable market share and is less technically advanced than Dolmar. When Makita bought Dolmar, their desire here in the US was to use Dolmar, (and Robin), technology to build the Makita brand into a serious player in hand held OPE. There were Makita factory reps and dealers bought direct from Makita, not through distributors. For several reasons, it never worked out and Makita scaled back their efforts in OPE to concentrate on what they do best, which is the electric tool business.

I'm not as clear on the Echo/Shindaiwa deal, but I believe Echo was interested in Shinny's backpack blowers and such. But the result in this case is that the Shindaiwa line has become sort of emaciated in the process. I believe they've gotten out of saws altogether and the rest of the line has also been paired down to the point that it really isn't a complete line anymore. Their marketing strategy seems to be to convert the Shindaiwa dealer base into Echo dealers and my prediction is that the Shindaiwa brand will be starved for product and fade away.

 

[c5rulz]

To OP, very informative post on information the average consumer would never know.

Thanks.

 

[Chris-PA]

Let's this over a little more. Looking at what Electrolux did, it would seem that the logic behind buying another company is to get one of two things; market share, (Jonsered, Poulan), or technology, (Red Max).

Makita would get neither with Efco which has laughable market share and is less technically advanced than Dolmar. When Makita bought Dolmar, their desire here in the US was to use Dolmar, (and Robin), technology to build the Makita brand into a serious player in hand held OPE. There were Makita factory reps and dealers bought direct from Makita, not through distributors. For several reasons, it never worked out and Makita scaled back their efforts in OPE to concentrate on what they do best, which is the electric tool business.

I'm not as clear on the Echo/Shindaiwa deal, but I believe Echo was interested in Shinny's backpack blowers and such. But the result in this case is that the Shindaiwa line has become sort of emaciated in the process. I believe they've gotten out of saws altogether and the rest of the line has also been paired down to the point that it really isn't a complete line anymore. Their marketing strategy seems to be to convert the Shindaiwa dealer base into Echo dealers and my prediction is that the Shindaiwa brand will be starved for product and fade away.

I agree. In a shrinking market like this companies consolidate because it's good for both of them. Jenn Feng had the McCulloch name which was still of some value, and clearly they were unable to make the investment to stay in the US market, so they were happy to get something out of it and Husqvarna was happy to get the brand and eliminate a competitor.

There is simply too much capacity for the available sales, with future sales likely to be smaller yet, so consolidation/elimination of some of that capacity is inevitable. Brands without the technology to meet the US emissions rules will need to pay more to use Husqvarna's technology, or to develop something of their own (a tough road, as it took a long time until RedMax developed a solution to the inherent 2-stroke problems and there probably are not many alternatives). This makes their products more expensive or gives them lower profit margins relative to the patent holder. Husqvarna does have to pay off whatever debt they took on to buy RedMax and develop AutoTune however - so they may not be in as great a position as it appears.

Some of these brands will exit the US but still carry on in other markets that don't have the emissions requirements at a much reduced volume - but then they will be up against the Chinese. Not an enviable position. Echo is a still a big name of some value here, so perhaps someone might buy it. Other than that I <s>doubt</s> expect that before too long anyone other than Stihl and Husqvarna will be left in the US.

A little longer term, the Euro and the EU break up and global trade and global corporations fail. Stihl and Husqvarna are Northern European corporations dependent on export to markets that are collapsing due to expensive energy and lack of credit. Nobody wins.

 

[Chris J.]

I have some stupid questions, some of which might come across as offensive (no offense intended):

Is it common to let warranty claims accumulate and submit them every six months/once a year?

If yes, isn't a business taking a risk trusting whatever company is in charge of warranty claims evaluations (approvals, denials)? Even if there have been no previous problems holding the claims for bulk submission?

 

[nstueve]

Makita would get neither with Efco which has laughable market share and is less technically advanced than Dolmar. When Makita bought Dolmar, their desire here in the US was to use Dolmar, (and Robin), technology to build the Makita brand into a serious player in hand held OPE. There were Makita factory reps and dealers bought direct from Makita, not through distributors. For several reasons, it never worked out and Makita scaled back their efforts in OPE to concentrate on what they do best, which is the electric tool business.

All this talk about Efco, does have me wondering where Dolmar/Makita's future market share will be and whether they will continue to hold a US product line in the future. Perhaps Makita will start to see the US emission standards as an uphill battle and will slowly back out of the US market too...

To the OP,
I should think that by making this post you probably just cost Efco more than they owe you. Bums!

 

[Machold]

The emissions standards are tough (no 2 stokes in California), how long before the major brands start selling 4 strokes in NAmerica in greater numbers?

PS
My Makita works really well, love it, in fact; but I don't do a lot of cutting, and it it's a tree, I choose my workhorse, the Solo656 (or the EFCO).

 

[Little Al]

Looks like they feel its time for a color and name change, I don't think they have tried blue yet?
Then they wonder why they can't build market share, it might help if they followed through on their commitments instead of cutting and running every few years.

Funny you should say that, the nearest to me dealer for Efco in SW France has had his store cleared of Efco & replaced with Oleo Mac I know it`s the same company just makes the old brain cells tingle a bit.

 

[sunfish]

3-4 years ago I needed to add a couple more saws, a local shop almost talked me into goin with Efco. It would have been handy because they are so close.

I'm Very glad I stayed with the XP saws!!!

 

[Machold]

Seems that Efco is going back to its original name in Europe.

 

[mikefunaro]

I agree. In a shrinking market like this companies consolidate because it's good for both of them. Jenn Feng had the McCulloch name which was still of some value, and clearly they were unable to make the investment to stay in the US market, so they were happy to get something out of it and Husqvarna was happy to get the brand and eliminate a competitor.

There is simply too much capacity for the available sales, with future sales likely to be smaller yet, so consolidation/elimination of some of that capacity is inevitable. Brands without the technology to meet the US emissions rules will need to pay more to use Husqvarna's technology, or to develop something of their own (a tough road, as it took a long time until RedMax developed a solution to the inherent 2-stroke problems and there probably are not many alternatives). This makes their products more expensive or gives them lower profit margins relative to the patent holder. Husqvarna does have to pay off whatever debt they took on to buy RedMax and develop AutoTune however - so they may not be in as great a position as it appears.

Some of these brands will exit the US but still carry on in other markets that don't have the emissions requirements at a much reduced volume - but then they will be up against the Chinese. Not an enviable position. Echo is a still a big name of some value here, so perhaps someone might buy it. Other than that I doubt that before too long anyone other than Stihl and Husqvarna will be left in the US.

A little longer term, the Euro and the EU break up and global trade and global corporations fail. Stihl and Husqvarna are Northern European corporations dependent on export to markets that are collapsing due to expensive energy and lack of credit. Nobody wins.

Something else to consider that runs parallel to a lot of what you're saying re costs, volume and investment is the fact that very few of the smaller companies here have segment leaders.

Looking at EFCO's lines, there's hardly any hot rods, or anything even competitive. 60cc backpack blower, mediocre air values, fairly standard weed whackers, and saws that are not boat anchors but don't drop any jaws on specs or weight or features.

To me, for a company like this to succeed and have a good and long run in the market they are going to NEED strong dealers. Husky has some saws right now that seem hot enough that people will put up with a ####ty dealer to get them. Not so with efco. I could see how many any institution like a school or something that didn't have exceptional needs for any one product but needed 1-2 of everything (saws, trimmers, blowers, etc) could be happy and buy all their products, but that's about it. Looking at the equipment and the specs I wouldn't expect to see any of it on a trailer anytime soon.

 

[Philbert]

When Makita bought Dolmar, their desire here in the US was to use Dolmar, (and Robin), technology to build the Makita brand into a serious player in hand held OPE.

Spike, I appreciate you sharing knowledge and insight in this area.

Makita is, of course, a HUGE company in electric power tools. But I was bummed several years back when they closed all (?) of their factory service centers - something that made them attractive to contractors and heavy users. B&D, Porter Cable, Milwaukee, etc., condensed some of their service center locations (and in some cases bought each other), but still having a presence is a big plus.

I know that most service for gas powered OPE is done at servicing dealers, which is different. But what led me to buying a Makita electric chainsaw was their reputation for contractor grade electric tools. That led me to learn about and trust Dolmar, which I really had not heard about.

Why do I associated 'Robin' with Subaru instead of Makita?

Thanks

Philbert