The Stihl 362 disappointment

[mdavlee]

Well if you're going to buy new ones you could get a little money back from the carcasses. There's a few if us that love to rebuild saws. Those 460s were run to failure. They should have noticed something was wrong before it got that far unless it was straight gassed.

 

[sunfish]

Might not be much help & it's already been said but I'll say it again.

For very little carbon build up Use Stihl Ultra oil, it's in a Silver bottle!

 

[Chris-PA]

Clogged crappy air filters is the number one reason for too rich mechanical issues in small engines. Or heck, big engines too! I have seen that for decades, doesn't matter two stroke or four stroke, so I agree with you.

If it has a properly placed diaphragm vent (like a bowl vent in a normal carb), then this is not the case. All that is required is to vent the metering diaphragm to downstream of the air filter rather than direct to the atmosphere. Then as the filter blocks up it reduces the air pressure on both sides of the diaphragm equally and does not change the mixture - at least until it gets obscenely blocked anyway. Stihl's "Intellicarb" is marketing speak for that, but my old McCulloch McCinderblock has that.

 

[hardpan]

Organization, responsibility, personal pride.

I pushed crews of my own and other people's for over fifteen years. In that time I had a handful of workers that cared as much about doing things right as I did. You already have tons of good advice, I'm going to try to put some of it in the same place and add a little management that might or might not be possible in your situation.

First off, premium fuel, synthetic oil, precisely mixed by you or one man. Don't even have raw gas and mix oil available to the crews. I have been guilty of the "if a little is good more is better theory" myself. When I am precisely measuring things now I realize how far off some of my old mix often was.

If at all possible pair up one man with one piece of equipment, saw or whatever it is. If you can't do that still try to limit who uses what instead of everyone grabbing whatever. Make a practice of inspecting all equipment once a week, an obvious practice! People will take better care of things when they know you notice.

I would post a list of protocols for proper maintenance of the saws and make everyone read and sign a copy to put on file. I would buy the M-tronic type ignition on every new saw too, a little more "fudge factor" like premium quality gas and oil.

Few if any of your men are going to take as much interest in taking care of the saws as you have already shown. You will have to do a small amount of training and also make plain that taking care of the saws as instructed is a condition of employment. One very cold morning I gathered my crew and told them very carefully and several times be sure to let every engine they started that morning run at idle for five to ten minutes until gauges were in the normal range. Five minutes later I hear an engine revving like hell! I go out in the yard and a man is revving mightily on the engine of my most important truck. Joe had been with me two years, was overall a good employee, and I liked him. He was gone as fast as I could figure time and cut a field check.

You can learn how to take care of the saws and get far better life out of them. Doesn't mean a thing if that knowledge isn't applied.

Your air filter protocol sounds shaky. Do have the heavy duty filter systems installed on the saws if they aren't there already and you probably want a policy of changing out filters before start of work and at noon. Detail somebody to inspect and clean the filters and reuse them over and over but "tapping out" a filter can be done thoroughly, half heartedly, or not at all in the field. Buy your fuel filters bulk and put a rotation or replacement policy in place for those. Likewise plugs. Chains need to be inspected regularly also to be sure your guys aren't getting lazy and running dull chains. I would set up a maintenance schedule to swap out spark plugs too, even if it was just to inspect them and put them back in the saw at the next rotation.

Seems like a lot to do but in reality all this takes very little time and fosters a new attitude on the job. Right now the saws are a tool, not equipment, and are getting about as much care and attention as a hammer or end wrench. To get decent service out of saws takes a little more effort. One thing, plugs like at least two of those in the picture and the conditions causing them are costing time in the cut. Taking better care of the saws will be offset to some degree by man hours saved. I don't know how it will fall but you may more than pay for time and money spent taking care of the saws by increased production on the job.

You should be able to have a saw looked over and whatever work needed done at six months and pretty easily get a year out of a saw. Sell it at a year old for a decent price and get a new one. Do have a mechanic tune the saw after it is broken in.

More than abuse or operator error I would suspect that simple neglect and being a little too casual about mixing oil and fuel are the big causes of poor saw life. When I bought a running business there was an atmosphere of neglect and not caring about the equipment. The mechanic was used to changing truck clutches every six weeks. Once I took over the clutches lasted for years.

Hu

Yep. You truly have been around. A structured maintenance program, inspections, spot checks, responsibility, elimination of honest mistakes like not having the wrong stuff around and labeling containers. It many times is a thought process, those that recklessly pound a $1000 machine in the ground will do the same to a million dollar machine. Some will like the education and apply it and some will simply wait until nobody is watching.

 

[Mad Professor]

I went to get some parts a bit back, looked at a 362.

Could not believe what a huge pig it was, did not even want to try running one.

A 038 is more nimble.

 

[XSKIER]

I went to get some parts a bit back, looked at a 362.

Could not believe what a huge pig it was, did not even want to try running one.

A 038 is more nimble.

Interesting. The 038 is a tic more weight than a MS 441 C-M, and a half horse less. How exactly is it more "nimble"? Are you a flimsy Husqy lover in disguise?

 

[angelo c]

I went to get some parts a bit back, looked at a 362.

Could not believe what a huge pig it was, did not even want to try running one.

A 038 is more nimble.

Its always best to run a saw before you form an opinion, but what the heck, there are quit a few on AS who hate the 362 w/o ever holding one while its running near a piece of wood. No less in one.

 

[les-or-more]

What is being used as jerry cans?
Some containers will leach crap into the mix and build carbon very badly, like washer fluid bottles.

 

[7sleeper]

Plastic fuel containers should be HDPE. Then you are on the safe side!

7

 

[066blaster]

Even 500 hours is too often. As said above, if the compression is good, why do that? Lower compression is not going to kill a saw. New rings and pistons will also not save them from being abused, run lean, rich or straight gassed either. As for the oil, or gas, or tuning rich or whatever with this 362, the OP's saw is the exception, not the rule. Though around here where I live most loggers buy new saws every year, after they run the holy snot out of them. Not unlike the OP who admits to having run the crap out of the 362 in question. I avoid buying those saws, as they usually have new bearings, AM replacement engines, they look or run like crap, and/or other stuff is wrong with them. They are beaters.

Also no need to throw out a blown saw. Put in a new top end, new bearings, or whatever, or get a new top end and send them to a builder to be cleaned up and ported. In the rare case, I have had to part out saws on Ebay, but the parts are usually worth more than a whole used saw. Once fixed, ported or rebuilt, run the saw some more. Just today a guy here on AS got a blown 460 for $50 that will be an easy rebuild. All it needs is a new piston and rings; the cylinder can be salvaged. I like to buy low hour straight gassed saws and put new OEM P&Cs in them. They run just like new saws, and cost half as much.

 

[CTYank]

Switch to Still Ultra, silver bottle. That'll help with the carbon.

Better yet Woodland Pro- meets all the latest air-cooled 2-stroke specs.
Any build-up of carbon in the chamber tells me a saw's been run way too gently (& cold) or maybe the mix is partly #2 (diesel). Honest.

 

[Typhke]

Just happen to go through the new catalog from Stihl. At the 2-stroke oil, they added this:





500 hours with HP Ultra.

Some blablablablabla, By using HP Ultra consistently, a piston in the Stihl testlab remains as new after a few hundred hours of running (see pic). More blablabla, specially designed for extreme loads etc.

Fight on

 

[MacLaren]

No doubt Castrol makes good oil.
I use their 5-30 regularly in my vehicles.

 

[opinion]

Just happen to go through the new catalog from Stihl. At the 2-stroke oil, they added this:


View attachment 327778


500 hours with HP Ultra.

Some blablablablabla, By using HP Ultra consistently, a piston in the Stihl testlab remains as new after a few hundred hours of running (see pic). More blablabla, specially designed for extreme loads etc.

Fight on

That's no bs. My commercial clients that use HP Ultra and good quality fuel, their pistons look like that.

 

[angelo c]

That's no bs. My commercial clients that use HP Ultra and good quality fuel, their pistons look like that.

yea but can they read German ???

 

[Typhke]

That's no bs. My commercial clients that use HP Ultra and good quality fuel, their pistons look like that.

Yea, but I was just surprised. They pay little to no attention to the oil here in Belgium. The dealer closest to me only sells HP Super. My dealer on the other hand only sells the regular HP and the HP Ultra. But most just go for the cheapest one. We don't get extra warranty with buying oil or something like that. Maybe they are finally gonna promote the 'more expensive' ones. I doubt the effect will be big, but I'm already all Ultra.

yea but can they read German ???

It's dutch. I couldn't find it in an English catalog.

It goes like: The highest grease capability and pureness are the most important development conditions for Stihl motor oil. By using HP Ultra consistently, a piston in the Stihl testlab remains as new after a few hundred hours of running (see pic). Important information: all Stihl oils were specially designed to be used under the extreme loads caused by the powerful Stihl engines. Doesn't matter if they are the 2-stroke, 2-Mix or 4-Mix engines, you make the right choice with the Stihl motor oils.

But they imply that the pistons should look like new after 500h when using HP Ultra, thought that would be some nice info to add to the thread.

I'll add that they advise 50:1? opcorn:

 

[angelo c]

Yea, but I was just surprised. They pay little to no attention to the oil here in Belgium. The dealer closest to me only sells HP Super. My dealer on the other hand only sells the regular HP and the HP Ultra. But most just go for the cheapest one. We don't get extra warranty with buying oil or something like that. Maybe they are finally gonna promote the 'more expensive' ones. I doubt the effect will be big, but I'm already all Ultra.


It's dutch. I couldn't find it in an English catalog.

Dutch, German....its all Greek to me !!!!

 

[MustangMike]

Bought a brand new Stihl 362 in July of 2013. Took it to the shop yesterday, Jan. 10 2014, because it would not start. The dealer tore it down to find carbon on top of the piston so thick it was hitting the top of the cylinder, 2 broke cylinder bolts and 1 was loose one. I asked what caused this and was told "gas. (well the saw wont run without it)This saw was recomended to me by a Stihl Product Specialist after I complained that my saws weren't lasting much longer than 6 months. I was running Stihl 460.I will tell you that i do run my saws hard, topping 8 to 10 loads of hardwood per saw in the average day. I was told to expect more than 6 months of use from this saw for my application. I buy my gas 2-1/ to 5 gal at a time and was told only to use fresh gas and mix it according to the mixing oil ( I only use Stihl in the orange bottle) instructions.
Stihl rep said it would be about 2 weeks before he could look at the saw and see if he could help me with it. SO i will update after that and let everyone what they say and do or don't do.

Instead of waiting around i went and bought a bigger saw, 70cc or so, from a different manufacturer. I will see if i can get more than 6 months from a different brand of saw.

Do you have any Stihl 044 / MS 440s with fried engines that are for sale as parts saws?

 

[opinion]

Yea, but I was just surprised. They pay little to no attention to the oil here in Belgium. The dealer closest to me only sells HP Super. My dealer on the other hand only sells the regular HP and the HP Ultra. But most just go for the cheapest one. We don't get extra warranty with buying oil or something like that. Maybe they are finally gonna promote the 'more expensive' ones. I doubt the effect will be big, but I'm already all Ultra.


It's dutch. I couldn't find it in an English catalog.

It goes like: The highest grease capability and pureness are the most important development conditions for Stihl motor oil. By using HP Ultra consistently, a piston in the Stihl testlab remains as new after a few hundred hours of running (see pic). Important information: all Stihl oils were specially designed to be used under the extreme loads caused by the powerful Stihl engines. Doesn't matter if they are the 2-stroke, 2-Mix or 4-Mix engines, you make the right choice with the Stihl motor oils.

But they imply that the pistons should look like new after 500h when using HP Ultra, thought that would be some nice info to add to the thread.

I'll add that they advise 50:1? opcorn:

They've discontinued the HP Super. Could be your dealer just has old stock. But as of now, only the HP orange, and HP Ultra grey are in production.

 

[Typhke]

They've discontinued the HP Super. Could be your dealer just has old stock. But as of now, only the HP orange, and HP Ultra grey are in production.

In the US or worldwide? Strange that it is showed in the 2014 catalog then.