Opinions on saws in the $400-450 range.

[Franny K]

Ok now I'm confused. Three Echo saws. CS-590, 600, and 620. Price points in the $400, $550, and $650.

What do you get for the additional bucks per model? Seems like the 620 is the one in the market place dollar wise that matches up with a 562...how do they compare head to head?

This has been covered before, by memory. The 620 has a more advanced or at least different cylinder. The 590 has a non metallic front handle and a spur sprocket. A rim drive seems at this time only an Echo part and is around $70. They all have spring anti vibe. There is probably more but I do not recall. The guide bar likely is in the more list. None of them have a stuffed crank. The parts sheets or ipl can be accessed from their website. The bore and stroke do not seem in the manual.

Due to the price in the title here going into 60cc comparison mode is a diversion.
Stihl in my limited experience (I am not a municipality or such entity) might discount enough to negate the sales tax. Husqvarna the consumer has more choice show specials, black Friday 20%, mail order we will match.... or at least give us the opportunity to quote you.

 

[Franny K]

I think much of what's been said here about the EPA stuff, should be taken with a grain of salt. Unless some of you work for the EPA and make the laws, I really doubt you really know what's going on and who can sell what and how many. Yes we may have an idea from reading on the internet, and we know everything in the internet is factual. Right now 590's are on the shelves, so it's obviously not a problem getting them passed the EPA what ever the reason, same with the smokey $100 Chinese pos all over the place. I also will ask a question, that will stir the pot a little. What if Stihl, Husky and maybe Dolmar overcompensated their designs, when they didn't really need to??

In general this is a good post.
There is a difference between a law and a regulation. They both have the same effect, they both can seem to be enforced or ignored or enforced in what could be called arbitrary manner. Do these Chinese strange new brands really have an exhaust compliance number on the saw (and complies with epa and carb for such a year) and a clean air index tag on them with a little string?

I suspect Dolmar has not got the sales in their four stroke stuff and their one strato the 6100 that manages a 3 out of 10 rating on the clean air index. They still have not got their 90cc or so model in that was supposed to be here like 20 months ago according to the Dolmar guy at the Paul Bunyan show in 2014.

 

[Idahonative]

You are totally wrong - and there is nothing new with that...

You're right ST...I'm totally wrong for expressing my opinion.

 

[GeorgiaVol]

What would be nice are some straight stock comparison videos of some of these saws. As far as EPA goes, it's the manufacturers problem. If it's on the shelf it passes whatever it's suppose to pass. I would like some videos though comparing the similar sized Dolmars, Echos, Husqvarnas and Stihls right at the 60cc size. Stock saws only.

 

[Idahonative]

What would be nice are some straight stock comparison videos of some of these saws. As far as EPA goes, it's the manufacturers problem. If it's on the shelf it passes whatever it's suppose to pass. I would like some videos though comparing the similar sized Dolmars, Echos, Husqvarnas and Stihls right at the 60cc size. Stock saws only.

Just my opinion but if all you want to compare is "pure stock" machines, my suggestion would be to stay away from the Echo's. They are good, well build, reliable machine in stock form but there is so much more to be had from them. As has been covered many times on this forum, a simple MM and tab delete turns them into a real nice machine. If I was going to buy a saw and run it pure stock, I would buy the Dolmar 6100 in a heartbeat.

In the very near future, I will be testing a MM'd and tuned 600p and a MM'd and tuned 620p. Just got done testing a ported 600p vs. a MM'd and tuned 620p and (as expected) the 620 could not hang with the 600 (thread on the "other" wood forum).

 

[GeorgiaVol]

That's why I would like to compare them stock. l just want to see how different they run stock. Then mod them and see what differences can be made. I have to assume that some saws just don't have as much room under the hood for more power as others.

 

[weimedog]

That's why I would like to compare them stock. l just want to see how different they run stock. Then mod them and see what differences can be made. I have to assume that some saws just don't have as much room under the hood for more power as others.

Actually an intuitive observation. I have to wonder based on Echo's marketing plan if the 590 is really choked up stock to justify the 600 and 620 cost difference. A derivative of what Husqvarna has done for years and has yet again with the 555 and 365. Think about that....a stock 620 is at a price point beginning to creep into 365 or 2166 territory which are essentially choked up 372's.....the thread gets more and more convoluted.

I think other than Muffler mods, modifications cost time which is money if done by a builder.. adds to the cost. Sounds like a 590 is a sleeper of sorts, in the same spirt a 365 is.

 

[Big Block]

Different part numbers, most likely the 620 is not as clogged up. Steve

It's the exhaust port from the jug to the muffler that is different not the guts. The 620 port is bigger.

 

[Idahonative]

Actually an intuitive observation. I have to wonder based on Echo's marketing plan if the 590 is really choked up stock to justify the 600 and 620 cost difference. A derivative of what Husqvarna has done for years and has yet again with the 555 and 365. Think about that....a stock 620 is at a price point beginning to creep into 365 or 2166 territory which are essentially choked up 372's.....the thread gets more and more convoluted.

I think other than Muffler mods, modifications cost time which is money if done by a builder.. adds to the cost. Sounds like a 590 is a sleeper of sorts, in the same spirt a 365 is.

IMO, the 590 is not "choked up stock to justify the 600 and 620 cost difference". The price difference comes from the 590 having a homeowner bar vs. Oregon PowerMatch, spur vs. rim sprocket, plastic vs. aluminum handle, and in the case of the 620p...mag clutch cover vs. plastic and double dogs standard. There are other small differences but those are the ones that really add to the price. They aren't things that really affect the cutting performance of the saw. They are things that are nice to have but the average woodcutter could live without. That's what makes the 590 such a deal...the engine is essentially the same as the 600/620, just doesn't have all the extras. The 620 apparently has some better factory porting also.

 

[noshow74]

I'm the one that invited Vol to a mini GTG. I don't think I communicated it well though. I was talking about just him and me and he could try out an array of saws and get a better idea of which ones do what. I couldn't do it right away but maybe once my schedule gets more sane. He's within an hour of me.
I could probably make a line up of at least six different models.

I live in Georgia and have a muff modified 590 hint hint lol. I wouldn't have a problem letting him try it out or anyone else.


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[noshow74]

Actually .325 with a 8 pin possibly even a 9 on something with the power AND rpm's of a 562 might be a lot of fun in Georgia pine...

I don't know the Echo's so really can't comment. In the 15 years I've been here I've never seen one, my loss from what it sounds like. Just they are like the Ghost saw. Hear about them here and there are a few places that sell them locally. Never had one show up either at the farm or at the GTG's. Never saw one in the woods with other's logging it either. Some what interested in that 590 from all the chatter online.

I run an 8 pin on the 044 in pine sometimes. It was white pine...it went through it faster than expected almost hit dirt lol. Also ran it in black gum that way. Need to try it in Oak sometime just to see.

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[fearofpavement]

@noshow74 Where in GA do you live?

 

[noshow74]

@noshow74 Where in GA do you live?

Near Athens.

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[GeorgiaVol]

Between Columbus and Lagrange here.

 

[hseII]

Carrollton.

 

[Full Chisel]

The EPA definitely plays a significant role when it comes to O P E emissions...there is a reason Stihl raised the MSRP of the MS250 and lowered the MS251.

 

[CoreyB]

That's why I would like to compare them stock. l just want to see how different they run stock. Then mod them and see what differences can be made. I have to assume that some saws just don't have as much room under the hood for more power as others.

My observations and what some builders have implied is that Dolmar does not leave as much "under the hood" as others do.
There is a big 6100 build thread and doing a mm and timing advance did not give any tangible increase.
I will not be porting or modding my 6100 because I like it for the whole package the way it is.
I can justify the extra $200 over the 590 do to some physical limitations of mine.
If I did not have those limitations the 590 would be very hard to pass over.
There are so many great saws that it is easy to argue over them or want all of them. Lol
Also a great 50 cc saw might work great for you. Performance wise I would put a 5105 against a 590.

 

[Idahonative]

Performance wise I would put a 5105 against a 590.

Huh??? @Andyshine77 now has his MM'd & tuned 590 running only about a second behind his 562xp and your saying a 5105 will run with the 590?

 

[CoreyB]

Huh??? @Andyshine77 now has his MM'd & tuned 590 running only about a second behind his 562xp and your saying a 5105 will run with the 590?

Not exactly but as a whole package maybe for some . If you put cutting time at the bottom of priority and things like AV, handling, and weight to the top , for some it would be worth the compromise and a closer price comparison.
If you look at wanting things like dual spikes, aluminum handle, it might be easier and more realistic in the said price range without giving up much performance.

 

[mountainlake]

Huh??? @Andyshine77 now has his MM'd & tuned 590 running only about a second behind his 562xp and your saying a 5105 will run with the 590?

Lots of bs on here, need to pick through it. Steve ( Performance wise I would put a 5105 against a 590), this will get tossed