Piston circlip failure on Stihl 1127 series.
- Thread starter fearofpavement
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fearofpavement
Trying them all
Good info. I advised Huztl of the issue and they're looking into it (supposedly)
Thanks LegDelimber I now have somewhere to start.I know the MS361 clip was a little heavier wire than the 10mm and threw the 10 in a container so didn't trust getting the exact one.The ms361 clip measured .031 thick and outside diameter .498.Measuring piston ends(yes not same hole) with 1 clip in difference was .005.The Echo clip will add the ears.Thanks I start checking.Dave
LegDeLimber
Addicted to ArboristSite
If anyone wants any other measurements off of that PB-620 pin or piston, etc.
Just let me know and I'll see if I can get them.
Sometimes I just need a little nudge/reminder to get my mind going about the things I still have here.
Just let me know and I'll see if I can get them.
Sometimes I just need a little nudge/reminder to get my mind going about the things I still have here.
Opened my spare kit and got this off supplied clips...wire .38,diameter .459/Ordered 4 of the Echo clips part #10001500120 .46cents each/e mailed Echo if anything thicker is available and will let all know.Dave --- Echo Tech help couldn't help for a thicker one,I'll check dealer bin when I pick up mine
Wood Sniffer
ArboristSite Lurker
While not the same thing I had a hose for my power steering pop off. Was held by a cir clip. Talk to parts stores and they said cant get clip must buy new hose.
Didn't have money for hose. Got to thinking bout it and dug out some springs had laying around and found 1 with same size wire and used 1 loop to make a clip. Worked perfict. If ya know the sizes can maybe find sub from something else. Maybe the clip for small 2 stroke motor cycle? Just my 1 cent but maybe worth looking into?
Didn't have money for hose. Got to thinking bout it and dug out some springs had laying around and found 1 with same size wire and used 1 loop to make a clip. Worked perfict. If ya know the sizes can maybe find sub from something else. Maybe the clip for small 2 stroke motor cycle? Just my 1 cent but maybe worth looking into?
I usually take the clips off the pistons that I replace, you never know when you'll lose on during install. Maybe now I'll use those old clips on my new AM pistons.
Stihlofadeal64
Addicted to ArboristSite
There should be quite a few sources for other cir-clips found on the web. It's gonna be difficult for me to use the 'eared-clip' now on a kit that I have from across the pond.
I have a feeling that eared clip was damaged during manufacture. It probably had a crack in it. There's nothing wrong with eared clips, all the car engines I've worked on have them. Of course they weren't made in China where the manufacturing isn't exactly meticulous. I would use the Stihl clips until this problem is sorted out. I have an 026 that's gonna need a piston and I have a Farmertech piston for it, already bought so I probably won't use the eared clip this time.
Stihlofadeal64
Addicted to ArboristSite
Most of the eared clips I've handled are quite a bit thicker than OEM cir-clips. Just saying.
I've noticed that too. I also noticed they aren't quite as springy as the OEM ones, you can bend them and they stay bent, they don't spring back as much.
fearofpavement
Trying them all
I just received a replacement cylinder and piston from Machines Doctor/Huztl. I've always found them good to deal with and I provided them data a few times on aftermarket parts issues.
I used a Farmertec kit yesterday to repair an MS660 a tree service brought by. I usually don't work on saws other than ones I own but they're out of state working on a contract here and were in a jam. The saw has turned to be a pain in the neck as I still don't have it running well. (fuel line bad, carb messed up, etc)
I'm going to have a lot of time in it by the time it's ready to go. I'm probably going to take another gander at it this afternoon but I have a cold and don't really feel like it. I loaned them an MS460 for the time being so they have something to cut with at least...
I used a Farmertec kit yesterday to repair an MS660 a tree service brought by. I usually don't work on saws other than ones I own but they're out of state working on a contract here and were in a jam. The saw has turned to be a pain in the neck as I still don't have it running well. (fuel line bad, carb messed up, etc)
I'm going to have a lot of time in it by the time it's ready to go. I'm probably going to take another gander at it this afternoon but I have a cold and don't really feel like it. I loaned them an MS460 for the time being so they have something to cut with at least...
Joab
I'll think of something.
I'm in the process of rebuilding my 029 using the 039 Raisman Platt cylinder kit -- I really didn't like the way the aftermarket circlips went in -- they seem to bend like a wire rather than a spring. That had me bothered, so I had a search and came upon this thread, which convinced me I should go pick up the OEM clips to be safe.
So I pulled out the aftermarket clips and put in the OEM ones earlier tonight -- there's quite a difference. My aftermarket clips didn't have ears, but they were a little thicker and had noticeably deformed upon installation -- the OEM clips were a little thinner, acted like a spring, and went in a heck of a lot easier. It did look like the pin might push past them, but I endeavoured and in fact they're sufficient that it won't.
I dunno if would have had an actual failure, but my peace of mind plus the added benefit of easier installation is worth the extra few dollars in my mind. (Now I just have to wait for some new seals to arrive so that I can get it all back together.)
Thanks for the post and the thread -- big help.
So I pulled out the aftermarket clips and put in the OEM ones earlier tonight -- there's quite a difference. My aftermarket clips didn't have ears, but they were a little thicker and had noticeably deformed upon installation -- the OEM clips were a little thinner, acted like a spring, and went in a heck of a lot easier. It did look like the pin might push past them, but I endeavoured and in fact they're sufficient that it won't.
I dunno if would have had an actual failure, but my peace of mind plus the added benefit of easier installation is worth the extra few dollars in my mind. (Now I just have to wait for some new seals to arrive so that I can get it all back together.)
Thanks for the post and the thread -- big help.
In my opinion it would be good to look for an Echo circlip set that's the same diameter that your saw takes. Echos have two small ears which make it very easy to install and being an Echo it's made out of good stuff, not that "baling wire" that the aftermarket kits use. I found two of them in my parts stuff but they're too small for the 1127 saws, might work on an 025?
It's not quite baling wire but it is softer than OEM.
It's not quite baling wire but it is softer than OEM.
Agent Orange
Hacktastic®
Glad the retailer got you sorted out, almost a rarity these days. You're a hell of a guy and brave to boot for loaning out your saw. Good luck on fixing their saw for them.
Joab
I'll think of something.
I noticed one more thing I didn't mention above. In my case, the aftermarket piston pin that came with Raisman Platt cylinder kit is slightly shorter than the OEM pin and is bevelled on the outside edge -- this might not be true of all aftermarket pins. The OEM pin is cut square and is maybe 0.5mm longer. ( I didn't measure -- rough estimate.)
When I was looking at the aftermarket pin in relation to the circlip, I was seeing the square end of the pin inside of the bevel -- I wasn't seeing the whole diameter of the pin. At a quick glance it looks like the pin could fit inside the circlip, but really the overall diameter of the aftermarket pin is bigger than it looks because of the beveled edge. So, on this kit, I don't think there's any serious concern that the aftermarket pin could get past the OEM circlip -- if there was enough force generated to drive it sideways (and that'd pretty much require a hammer and punch), it might jam the circlip in the notch. [I think I've read the whole thread and I hope I'm not repeating what somebody else already pointed out.]
All that said, the longer length of the OEM pin and it's lack of a bevel virtually eliminates all side to side movement once the circlips are installed, while there's a bit of room for movement no matter which clips are used for the aftermarket pin. My OEM piston pin is in good shape, so I'm using it with the OEM circlips and RP aftermarket piston -- seems like the most secure option in my case and I'm pretty confident with it. (But don't worry, I'll share if I have to eat my words. )
When I was looking at the aftermarket pin in relation to the circlip, I was seeing the square end of the pin inside of the bevel -- I wasn't seeing the whole diameter of the pin. At a quick glance it looks like the pin could fit inside the circlip, but really the overall diameter of the aftermarket pin is bigger than it looks because of the beveled edge. So, on this kit, I don't think there's any serious concern that the aftermarket pin could get past the OEM circlip -- if there was enough force generated to drive it sideways (and that'd pretty much require a hammer and punch), it might jam the circlip in the notch. [I think I've read the whole thread and I hope I'm not repeating what somebody else already pointed out.]
All that said, the longer length of the OEM pin and it's lack of a bevel virtually eliminates all side to side movement once the circlips are installed, while there's a bit of room for movement no matter which clips are used for the aftermarket pin. My OEM piston pin is in good shape, so I'm using it with the OEM circlips and RP aftermarket piston -- seems like the most secure option in my case and I'm pretty confident with it. (But don't worry, I'll share if I have to eat my words.
)
I'm not sure why some enterprising person doesn't "invent" the teflon buttons to put on the end of your pins so you don't need those dreaded circlips.
fearofpavement
Trying them all
On airplane engines they use aluminum plugs on the ends. Usually works.
I suppose a guy could machine one or two just for a test. I'm sure they originally made the circlips just because they were cheaper than anything else.
fearofpavement
Trying them all
I think the circlip is the best solution for a 2 stroke engine.
