I paid $110 shipped for 10 qts of klotz kl-200 original 100% syn. Comes out to what about $44 a gal in hand.
Thats the only klotz I will use with my ethanol 93 gas.
Thats the only klotz I will use with my ethanol 93 gas.
Can't afford the synthetic oil.
- Thread starter pete_86
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Terry Syd
Addicted to ArboristSite
I used Pennzoil air-cooled two-stroke oil in my desert racer at 32 to 1 back in the 70s. Never had a problem with it - and I was running Mach 1 up hot desert sand washes with a piped engine that wasn't fan cooled. For an engine, a three hour desert race is about the same level of abuse as three hours of milling.
I prefer running synthetic oil, but the Pennzoil will work fine. I expect more wear is caused by less than ideal air filtration than by the choice of oil.
I prefer running synthetic oil, but the Pennzoil will work fine. I expect more wear is caused by less than ideal air filtration than by the choice of oil.
treeslayer2003
Addicted to ArboristSite
i have been useing stihl dyno oil for over 20 years and my saws are all good inside. i do mix at 32-1.So for yrs people have used reg oil, why the synthetic? Sure, it lubricates better, stays stable, and etc. However I'm buying Belray H1R and running 32:1 in my 660 for milling. I fig I'm spending just over $7 a gallon of oil and fuel and when milling that doesn't last long. Yes I love my saw and want a long life but I can buy Pennzoil air cooled a lot cheaper and have been considering using that. I do mill quite a bit and that's prob why I'm burning a bit of oil. I know I cold use the Sithl oil at say 50:1 but I can find Belray bit cheaper and I think even at 32:1 it's still cheaper. I know if you can't afford a hobby you prob shouldn't do it and some might say why worry about the cost of oil when you've got so much money in a saw and mill.
Very true, but I'm out of oil and have to wait for it to ship in. Also it's going to cost me $25 a qrt which I know isn't a bad price it just adds up. I'm not sure how long my saw will last on pennzoil, but I'm thinking as I'm mechanically inclined that I could have enough money to rebuild the engine if it only lasts half as long with the pennz. Sure I'm out some time and money when that comes, but I'd hope to have the money than. Right now $25 on oil is bit of money for me and a lot of old timers would prob say WTF $25 for a qrt of oil? Yeah lol and than buying the bar oil too at $10 a gallon. So it adds up and my money is bit tight for now as I'm unemployed and not having much luck finding construction jobs around here. Seems like everyone around here is in same boat with economy around here.
So what do you all think? Please don't bash me for sounding like I'm cheap.I'm not, just have to understand right now I mill because it lets me get my mind clear and gives me a more affordable outlet for fun right now.
Engines have been run to their peak and max load by many for yrs and yrs on reg oil. I agree synthetic is better, but 32:1 wouldn't pennz do almost as well? I agree for cars synthetic is good, but for 2 cycle is it justafied?
No, not starting an oil thread here. So no debating on oil brands or ratios needed. Thanks for help guys!
i would not use any cheap oil........i have seen what that does inside..........stihl orange bottle is pretty cheap compared to synthetics but i believe it to be far better than hardware store off brands.
http://www.airplaneoil.com/Aeroshell_Sport_Plus_2_Case_of_12_Quarts_p/aerosportplus2-qts.htm
If you read up on it, you will find that Pennzoil Air Cooled is no longer in production; but it was superseded by the above => Shell owns Pennzoil. I have heard it is the same formulation, and I have also heard it is better than the Pennzoil air cooled. Fairly inexpensive so long as shipping does not eat you up. I tried to find it cheaper but could not...........but I'm sure with more searching it could be found for less.
In a nutshell, I think so long as you stick with an FD rated oil you are golden, and I would run it at 32:1 and tune appropriately for milling. Should be lots of affordable options out there.
Waylan
If you read up on it, you will find that Pennzoil Air Cooled is no longer in production; but it was superseded by the above => Shell owns Pennzoil. I have heard it is the same formulation, and I have also heard it is better than the Pennzoil air cooled. Fairly inexpensive so long as shipping does not eat you up. I tried to find it cheaper but could not...........but I'm sure with more searching it could be found for less.
In a nutshell, I think so long as you stick with an FD rated oil you are golden, and I would run it at 32:1 and tune appropriately for milling. Should be lots of affordable options out there.
Waylan
If this is a long-term issue, I'd suggest you keep fuel-efficiency in mind for future saw purchases, and stick to strato engines.
Really can't see blowing useful hydrocarbons right out the pipe, without getting the most out of them. Just saying ...
Really can't see blowing useful hydrocarbons right out the pipe, without getting the most out of them. Just saying ...
No, pennzoil Air cooled 2 cycle, do a search on it you may be surprised. It's pretty much maybe the most popular reg 2 cycle oil. Has to say air cooled, not the outdoor 2 cycle. The aircooled is harder to find and guess it builds less carbon. I like your idea, mill is in the near future.
Free for now, I used to buy it for $3 for the smaller bottles. I don't remember the size, maybe 12 oz. So, its a bit cheaper. I've got a couple bottles of it kicking around as I used to use it back when I flew rc planes. Was real poplar with that crowd. I'm really likeing Bailey's synthetic that Brad recommended. I'd forgotten about it. You just have to order it when doing a parts order to make shipping worth it, still cheaper than the Belray with shipping so a win-win. I like the easy mix bottles. The 6 oz bottles would get me 1.5 gal which is about as much as I burn on an outing. Plus the fuel stabilizer is an added plus, not that I rely on it. I always try to keep fresh.
Thanks for all the replies guys, greatly appreciated. I will have to take a look at the options everyone's mentioned. I agree, run the best you can. Once I'm back on my feet with more steady income I'll go synthetic, was looking close at the Bailey's this am. For now I've got a med pile of logs to mill and not having to pay shipping for oil would be nice. Lots of good advice everyone, that's why I love this site. Yes, a band mill is in the future. I'm guessing the engines on say the norwoods for example are pretty economical on their gas usage, nice that you just straight gas them, and I like the water cooled blade idea. Someday, but can only dream for now.
There's no big bore stratos yet
That was only part of my suggestion. Didn't want to get "pointed" about how some Stihls, like the 660, appear to have established a rep for disposing of fuel (and the oil mixed with it.) Then, there is a strato 441 if that has sufficient power at reasonable rpm. Maybe better yet, one of the big Dolmars or Husqys/Jonnys.
Lots of good reasons to go for a bandsaw, especially if you're doing much milling. (Does anybody use the voluminous sawdust from milling as input to a pellet-mill? That could recover some of the massive fiber waste.)
Yeah none of them are very fuel efficient milling. The 661 is going to be the first so called strato. It doesn't have the fresh air ports or double barrel carb.
Marketing has alot to do with what oil people use. When was the last time anyone experinced an 'oil' related failure that can be directly linked to oil quality. Does full synthetic really offer the 'best' overall protection? l think full synthetic only does one thing better.....cabon.
RiverRat2
Serio Tree Freak
I hope you dont think I am putting words in your mouth but I am guessing you meant to say help control excessive carbon build up????
I've been using the Pennzoil air cooled for some 15 years at 32:1. Haven't had any oil problems. I've got a couple more years of Pennzoil on hand and then I'm using Bailey's synthetic at 32:1 which I already have a few years supply.
Termite
Time To Launch
I don't understand milling with a chainsaw. It is not the right tool for the job. I use a custom saw mill they charge 14 cents a foot.
My logger buddy puts hundreds of hours a year on his saws and uses Walmart SuperTeck.
My logger buddy puts hundreds of hours a year on his saws and uses Walmart SuperTeck.
banana boat
ArboristSite Operative
Synthetic is gay run an oil with caster
7sleeper
Addicted to ArboristSite
Why would that be? Because synthetic should burn off the same as dino during combustion. Low smoke or carbon reduction has more to do with the additives and a proper carb setting as far as I understood. The only thing synthetic does better is it is more tolerant to higher temperatures, meaning a higher security to moving parts.
That's what I understood about this topic.
7
A full synthetic will burn cleaner leaving less deposits. lt is also hydro scopic (attracts moisture) which l don't like. I do agree with your advice on a good fd rated synthetic oil for someone who wants a low maintenance motor being that they don't like cleaning plugs, ports and piston crowns however my preference is a semi synthetic which kinda gives you the best of both worlds. Years ago l used to believe exactly as you do.....until l started to understand two cycle oil and how it has evolved over the years. Simply l believe the negatives of full synthetic oil out way the positives.
I love the smell of Klotz in the morning.
Idk where you get your information from but claiming its hydroscopic and that it matters is silly. I've never read any oil tech articles on synthetic oils that said it mattered or if they are or not I'm not sure that it does matters. Do you use E gas? That is hydroscopic and lots of people use it so I fail to see your point as why I would even matter... I bet you keep your gas and oil in air tight containers and use it so fast I doubt it has a chance to absorb moisture (if it can).
Like others have mentioned, stick with the ratings of the oil and not the name, "the proof is in the pudding" and standardized testing is how to compare oils. As far as synthetic oils not providing any benefit I call bull. Do some research and it becomes apparent there are real world benefits and the amount of wear can be measured between service intervals between synthetic and other oils.
Here's an interesting read...
http://www.redlineoil.com/content/files/tech/Two-Stroke Technical Info.pdf
